RPL recognition of Cross Country Endorsement

[DrZoos]

just wondering if anyone has actually navigated the CASA mess yet and successfully got an RPL conversion from RAAus

 

I have hit snags in every direction including a medical issue...

 

But the most frustrating is the English test and trying to get CASA to recognise my cross country

 

They want me to get a CASA testing officer to sign and say i have done the flight test, the theroy exam and done a 100nm flight with two landings not at origin or destination... plus at least 5 hours solo xc

 

I have done and met all of this but the issue is why would a CASA testing officer sign this off and how could they sign this off when this was all done by RAAus CFI

 

I offered to have my CFI write a letter to say so but no it has to come from a CASA examniner

 

Has anyone else encountered this craziness and managed to navigate this mess...called an RPL conversion

 

 

[nickduncs84]

Casa have charged my credit card, so I assume they are going to send me something at some stage. I applied about 6 weeks ago. Re the issues you are facing, it's complete bullocks, but the easiest solution is probably to go to a school that does Ra Aus and ppl/rpl. You might need to do a couple of hours so that they are comfortable putting their name to your application, but at least they won't be of the belief that Ra Aus is inferior and make you do everything again. I'm at Adelaide biplanes in Aldinga who are very much pro Ra Aus and we're very helpful in getting the rpl application processed. Good luck.

 

 

[01rmb]

I submitted the paperwork along with my logbooks to get the pilot certificate with radio and cross country endorsement recognised as equivalent to the RPL. They issued the RPL with no endorsements (took about 5 weeks).

 

I have all the time requirements even including a cross country flight from Archerfield to Longreach (and return) with several stop overs so more than meets the 100 nm condition but no go. The radio was the one that really got me. Sit in my aircraft with a RA-Aus pilot certificate and radio endorsement and I can use the radio but can't use the radio as a RPL pilot.

 

I am currently working through a GA school to do a flight review and provide the endorsements but they essentially will be doing all the theory exams and nav flights again.

 

 

[rhysmcc]

I also had my RPL issued without the endorsements, rang CASA and was told I need to submit the 61-RE form. From what I can tell it shouldn't apply for someone with a RPC with those endorsements (Nav + radio) as long as you can prove the English Prof. I thought that was going to be the easy part as I've already got it covered on another license but seems the 2 systems don't communicate.

 

Will try again on Monday and see how we go.

 

 

[facthunter]

perhaps the RAAus Nav qualification is not considered good enough. I wouldn't be surprised.Nev

 

 

[poteroo]

perhaps the RAAus Nav qualification is not considered good enough. I wouldn't be surprised.Nev

If it's the bare 10 hrs - then unlikely it will be recognised. I'd be thinking that you'd need to have done around 15 hrs in the nav endorsement to reach a recognition level for most GA schools. (remember, these are navs that the school has signed off on - whereas the hrs that you subsequently do by yourself do not have the same authenticity. (sorry, but that's reality).

 

We have always used the exact same nav syllabus and routes as the joint GA school. So, our RAAus pilots have done everything short of the PPL test flight and there will be no problems with their recognition. Also, there's the issue of just what 3-axis aircraft was used. If it was 100 KTAS unit, then your hours can be taken to be 'equivalent' to a GA aircraft such as a Warrior or Cessna 172.

 

Other posters have it right - go to a joint GA/RAAus school if you want recognition. In any case, the changeover to Part 61 Licences is a paper nightmare. You need photocopies of every endorsement or qualification out of your logbook, (radio too) - to accompany your application for RPL. Then there's the English Proficiency test by the GA Flight Examiner/CFI. You should already have an ARN off the CASA website. And your medical as well.

 

There will be a few difficulties with these RAAus - GA RPL conversions, until everyone settles down.

 

 

[dazza 38]

The english proficiency test is a bit of a joke, drummed up by some CASA clown. Why would anybody born and bread in Australia have take the test. What a insult. CASA can shove their RPL up their ar$e.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

And guess what, the recordings you have to listen to and decipher in the "english proficiency test" are spoken by an Indian. You have to be able to decipher a thick "indian" accent to pass an english proficiency test.. yea boy!!!!. Thats not a waste of time at all...

 

 

[dazza 38]

And guess what, the recordings you have to listen to and decipher in the "english proficiency test" are spoken by an Indian. You have to be able to decipher a thick "indian" accent to pass an english proficiency test.. yea boy!!!!. Thats not a waste of time at all...

What a circus CASA must be. If they had any brains they would say, sent us a copy of your birth certificate and if you were born in a english speaking country, no need for the English test.

 

 

[Geoff13]

It's interesting but I am sure that I just did 5 exams all written in English to get my pilots certificate. Someone please correct me if I am wrong but I thought it was English.

 

Cheers Geoff13

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Why would anybody born and bread in Australia have take the test.

Bred - it's 'bred in Australia' Dazza.

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

Part 61 plainly states that the RAAus pilot certificate is enough to get you an RPL. It also says the endorsements carry over. The RAAus cross country endorsement counts as long as you can show at least 5 hours solo nav with one 100 nm flight with two full stop landings as PIC. The radio endorsement should read straight across with some complications due to the English language garbage. NickDunks84 is right, go to a good RAAus/GA school that knows the regs and is not out to rip you off. He has named one school. if anyone out there knows of others let everyone know. Remember your log book is a legal document, fill it our properly and honestly and no one should doubt your nav qualifications. If it looks like a grade four child did it in pencil you may have problems.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Bred - it's 'bred in Australia' Dazza. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Bugger you got me.

 

 

[rhysmcc]

Why do you need a GA school to sign you off? The regulation clearly states that the RPC Nav equals the RPL Nav

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Yes it equals it, but it's not issued. You still have to get signed off.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Imagine if the raa could issue them;)

 

 

[Happyflyer]

You will need a GA school to get up to speed and then do a flight review in a GA aircraft before you can use the RPL. Also a GA instructor or ATO is needed to sign the Endorsement form and the English language form.

 

 

[Kununurra]

There seems to me to be the same theme throughout these post and it is not about the students doing an English proficiency test it seems clear to me that the person from CASA considering the RPL application needs to prove their proficiency in the English language as they seem to be lacking a little

 

 

[Camel]

There seems to me to be the same theme throughout these post and it is not about the students doing an English proficiency test it seems clear to me that the person from CASA considering the RPL application needs to prove their proficiency in the English language as they seem to be lacking a little

It's not just the language they lack in some cases !

 

Yes it equals it, but it's not issued. You still have to get signed off.

Makes you wonder why an RAA can't issue the RPL ! If it is equal, then why not ! The games CASA plays.

Anyhow I have a PPL so I don't really need a RPL but if you look at the big picture, a PPL can do specialised training without an AOC a RPL is equal to a RAA PC so why can't an RAA CFI with a PPL issue a RPL ? Don't answer this as it is obvious because it's CASA showing who is in charge, like their dumb arse English language test ! CASA found a way even if you speak perfect English you still can fail because you need to understand a strong Indian accent !

 

You think CASA can keep anyone safe ?

 

 

[robinsm]

perhaps the RAAus Nav qualification is not considered good enough. I wouldn't be surprised.Nev

why would you not be surprised? Stood me in good stead for journey of over 3000km with many legs??

 

 

[rhysmcc]

I don't have the regulation in front of me, but from memory it says if you have RPC you qualify for RPL. if you have Nav on RPC you get it on RPL. No where does it say you need to get it signed off by a GA instructor. You need to conduct a flight review on the class of aircraft, but not each endorsement.

 

 

[Camel]

who ever said the RPL was equal ?

Deborah it is CASA that said it was equal !

 

Copy and paste from CASA website http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/lib100191/rr61_rpl_fs.pdf

 

I already hold a pilot certificate issued by RA-Aus. How do I obtain an RPL?

 

A pilot certificate is equivalent to an RPL. To get your RPL you need to complete an application form, and follow

 

the instructions on the form to provide evidence of your pilot certificate, submit a recent photograph and provide appropriate proof of your identity. You also need to undertake a flight review before you can use your licence.

 

Your new licence grants you the relevant category rating, aircraft class rating and design feature endorsements.

 

You are also granted a recreational navigation endorsement if your pilot certificate authorises you to conduct cross- country flights and if you meet the minimum flight times.

 

1. What endorsements can be added to an RPL?
    
   The following endorsements can be added to an RPL:
    
    
   
   • 
      
      
     › controlled aerodrome endorsement
      
      
      
      
     
   • › controlled airspace endorsement
      
      
      
      
     
   • › flight radio endorsement (this requires an aviation English language proficiency assessment)
      
      
      
      
     
   • › recreational navigation endorsement (this requires minimum flight time of five hours solo cross-country and a minimum of two hours dual instrument time, of which at least one hour is flight instrument time).
      
      
      
     

 

 

 

 

 

 

so it seems the instrument time is required for nav endorsement.

 

 

[AVOCET]

The way i see it , if they were the SAME , why would any body bother ?

 

They obviously arnt the same , are they ?

 

Mike

 

 

[Camel]

sorry my message did not come accross properlyCASA did, so they should be the one to complane to

 

it was always going to be an issue getting a ga school who may havenever seen you before to sign you off Exactly the same issue with getting a ppl for an RAA pilot

They would have to train you on type, if someone had only flown say a Jab, they would then need to learn to fly a C172 possibly, not all that difficult but definitely different and would be a few hours at least and I would expect that an instructor would like to see the person comfortable and safe before they signed them off so could be more like 5 hours, it is reasonable for any instructor to expect a reasonably good standard of ability and airmanship before signing off.

 

Most jab pilots would not have used mixture control or find it difficult to steer on ground as not direct, coupled by springs.

 

 

[rhysmcc]

The sign off should be a flight review, the same you get every 2 years as a BFR. At least that's what the regulations imply.