RAAus Aircraft Register

[ave8rr]

I see the Aircraft "Registrations" file is not available on the RAAus web site. Has the Register been removed or having a long over due update?

 

Mike

 

 

[Camel]

I too went looking a while ago and couldn't find it so I googled and found it. http://flysafe.raa.asn.au/admin/aircraft_database_registration.html.

 

 

[Geoff13]

I too went looking a while ago and couldn't find it so I googled and found it. http://flysafe.raa.asn.au/admin/aircraft_database_registration.html.

That list seems to be out of date. Late 2011 early 2012 are the newest ones on there. I also have been looking and can't find an up to date one.

 

Cheers Geoff13

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Gents

 

If important to you drop an email to the CEO asking why you get a file not found reference when following the link? ( I pressume you are talking about registrations under the technical menu header) No one here will be able to answer the question, the CEO can not only answer but have it fixed as well. Contact details here

 

Andy

 

 

[Geoff13]

Done.

 

Cheers Geoff13

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Should have mentioned that RAAus Board, senior managers and a cross section of the staff worked Sunday, and some of Sat so the office might be reduced staff to compensate those that are in need of a weekend..... That being the case might take a day or so more than normal to get the response.

 

Andy

 

 

[Geoff13]

Thats cool got an immediate response saying my email had been received and would be looked at asap. Cant ask for much more than that can we.

 

Cheers Geoff13

 

 

[ave8rr]

The CEO advises that the list has been temporarily removed due out of date and has asked for what purpose it (Register) is used for and that they are currently reviewing web site content.

 

Mike

 

 

[DonRamsay]

I think there is also something going on about whether RA-Aus should assist airports levy landing fees on RA-Aus registered aircraft. A current register with names of registered owners could be interesting to airport operators.

 

 

[rhysmcc]

The previous list didn't include owners details, just the rego and aircraft type.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Don

 

If you look at my post about motions put at the board meeting you will see there is one on landing fees that specifically says landing fees are an issue between airport owner and pilots using their airports. RAAus will not be providing in any way, your info to any additional 3rd party's other than those it already does when needed such as police, aussar, Atsb etc.

 

Andy

 

 

[KRviator]

I think there is also something going on about whether RA-Aus should assist airports levy landing fees on RA-Aus registered aircraft. A current register with names of registered owners could be interesting to airport operators.

I think that is one of the worst ideas I've heard in a long time.I have nothing at all against paying my landing fees where due, however fail to see why RAAus should hand our details over on a silver platter. You cannot just log on to the RTA and find out who drives car ABC-123, why is it considered acceptable for aircraft?

 

 

[kgwilson]

If your aircraft is VH registered the owners (and the operator as this may be different) name and registered address is available on line to anyone. This should be the same for all Ra-Aus registered aircraft. In NZ all recreational aircraft are on the same ZK register as GA aircraft so details are available on line. The only difference is that RA aircraft have to be registered annually whereas GA aircraft are registered once but with registrations soon to be on line and regos to be extended to 2 years there should be no issue keeping it up to date.

 

Why do we have to be secretive about it? Having the register available to anyone including aerodrome operators will help keep our facilities maintained as pilots will know that if they do not pay they can be pursued for the fee.

 

There are plenty of pilots who almost go out of their way NOT to pay landing fees. We have an honesty box and plenty are not honest. When I see an aircraft arrive and speak to the pilot I remind them of the landing fee box & the fact that the aerodrome is maintained by users and not a cent is put in by ratepayers. Even then some see it as their god given right to use the facilities and not pay the measly $5.00 RA or $10.00 GA fee.

 

 

[kasper]

If your aircraft is VH registered the owners (and the operator as this may be different) name and registered address is available on line to anyone. This should be the same for all Ra-Aus registered aircraft. In NZ all recreational aircraft are on the same ZK register as GA aircraft so details are available on line. The only difference is that RA aircraft have to be registered annually whereas GA aircraft are registered once but with registrations soon to be on line and regos to be extended to 2 years there should be no issue keeping it up to date.Why do we have to be secretive about it? Having the register available to anyone including aerodrome operators will help keep our facilities maintained as pilots will know that if they do not pay they can be pursued for the fee.

 

There are plenty of pilots who almost go out of their way NOT to pay landing fees. We have an honesty box and plenty are not honest. When I see an aircraft arrive and speak to the pilot I remind them of the landing fee box & the fact that the aerodrome is maintained by users and not a cent is put in by ratepayers. Even then some see it as their god given right to use the facilities and not pay the measly $5.00 RA or $10.00 GA fee.

Because having your name and adress posted openly online with the fact that you have a nice littel aircraft with an engine on it worth $10k plus is a theives charter ... and it happens all too frequently in the UK as I know.

Even if they don't want to go after your plane they have your address and due to a very specific error entered by CAA in the UK for one of my addresses on the public register I KNOW that people are harvesting the data for address lists - you get more junk mail that is addressed and that was able to be proved in my case but the act reqs it.

 

In an information age the right to remain private is a hard one and there are real and valid reasons not to publicly provide your home address publicly especially when puclication is directly attributed and linked to the ownership of high value items.

 

 

[Jabiru Phil]

I seem to recall ticking a box in a Raaus document asking if I wanted my details kept private.

 

I had a landing fee invoice forwarded on to me from Raa from a council in WA. So my details were kept private.

 

They just sent on the invoice.

 

Happy with that arrangement.

 

Phil

 

 

[rhysmcc]

Another option could be to setup a members email like [email protected], airports can send their electronic bill which is forwarded automatically to the members email. Another option could be the list is given only to AvData and Airservices (not public). Or another option is keep it how it is and members should contact airport owners to make the payment if they have used their aerodrome.

 

 

[red750]

As previously stated, the register did not include private information

 

 

Details of VH- registered aircraft, whether a QANTAS A380 or a Tiger Moth owned by Joe Bloggs, can be freely accessed via the CASA website:

 

 

or the website 16right.com/regosearch. I have deliberately blanked out information which is plainly available to anyone searching these sites.

 

 

Both list details of the registered owner and operator. This information is not necessary, and could be limited to the information in the red box.

 

However, as an aircraft photographer, I use these sites to positively identify the make and model of aircraft that I photograph. I don't need to know who owns or operates it. Finding information on rec aircraft is often difficult or impossible.

 

Another site, based overseas, airport-data.com, has a database of airframe profiles. Details of owner/operators is limited, in most cases, to such as Private, Corporate, etc, and the state or country. eg. The above aircraft would show Private, Australia. It lists tail no., manufacturer, model, year of construction, serial no., engine make and model and registration status.

 

 

 

[rhysmcc]

I seem to recall ticking a box in a Raaus document asking if I wanted my details kept private.I had a landing fee invoice forwarded on to me from Raa from a council in WA. So my details were kept private.

They just sent on the invoice.

 

Happy with that arrangement.

 

Phil

The problem the board raised with this way is it's costing RAA to forward that letter on, I guessing in staff wages and postal costs. RAA will no longer process landing fee requests, you should contact the aerodrome operator to arrange payment.

 

I've got a feeling there is going to be alot of uncollected landing fees sent to HQ, it may reach a point where Avdata or a large airport will take RAA to court for the money.

 

 

[KRviator]

If your aircraft is VH registered the owners (and the operator as this may be different) name and registered address is available on line to anyone. This should be the same for all Ra-Aus registered aircraft.

NO, it shouldnt and it should not be the case for VH- registered aircraft either. You would not stand for your car rego details being publicly available would you? Why then, is it different for aircraft?

 

Why do we have to be secretive about it?

Here's one reason. Some bloke at PPrune who feels it is acceptable to trawl the register to "get in touch" with commercial operators. If I was running a business the absolute last thing I would want is a Government department giving out my details so every Tom, Dick and Kiwi could ring up and pester me for a job. Contrary to popular belief, some people do not actually want the world to know they have a $100k+ RV-x in their hangar. Put two and two together and that equals "Joe Bloggs must have money" or "Joe Bloggs must have a high-end GPS I can pinch".

 

Having the register available to anyone including aerodrome operators will help keep our facilities maintained as pilots will know that if they do not pay they can be pursued for the fee.

It is the same for car parks too, but you don't see the vehicle rego database publicly available do you? What is so different?

[kasper]

The problem the board raised with this way is it's costing RAA to forward that letter on, I guessing in staff wages and postal costs. RAA will no longer process landing fee requests, you should contact the aerodrome operator to arrange payment.I've got a feeling there is going to be alot of uncollected landing fees sent to HQ, it may reach a point where Avdata or a large airport will take RAA to court for the money.

Bit hard to take an association to court over not providing membership details let alone aircraft regn details where there is no legal obligation to disclose and pretty much no hope of them recovering the landing fees from the RAA directly.

 

There is a two step issue here - the person the RAA may need to disclose as a member may be discoverable under the ACT lasw attaching to the RAA membership (not sure but I could look into it if pushed) but the data they want is related to an aircraft registered owner not directly a member and that detail is highly unlikely to be discoverable under the ACT legislation governing the RAA so it would fall back to other discovery eg the cwth aviation lsgislation requires the GA register to be published but the RAA register is not.

 

Basically the RAA have been providing a courtesy to airfield operators by passing on demands but as the board noted when they cahnged their policy on this it costs. And it is not just the $1.50 ish it costs for direct cost to print, envelope and send the letter its the time and thats the killer here. The RAA as it has been operating is not financially viable and the board are addressing that.

 

 

[rhysmcc]

It is the same for car parks too, but you don't see the vehicle rego database publicly available do you? What is so different?

Actually, if you fail to pay in a car park and get issued with a ticket, the company can indeed access your details from your number plate to try and collect the money.

 

Bit hard to take an association to court over not providing membership details let alone aircraft regn details where there is no legal obligation to disclose and pretty much no hope of them recovering the landing fees from the RAA directly.

I wouldn't think they would sue for the member's details, but sue for the X amount of money they are owned from RA-AUS registered aircraft. Just going through the process would cost us more money then it's worth, even if we did win. Make a deal with the 2 largest Aviation Charges company, that way the details aren't shared to the public. Or charge a fee for every forward to bill to pay for the postage and cost of staff time ($5 or something?).

 

If you leave it up to the members and they don't pay, we will all get screwed. RA-AUS aircraft will not be welcome at aerodromes that have trouble locating payment.

 

 

[kasper]

Actually, if you fail to pay in a car park and get issued with a ticket, the company can indeed access your details from your number plate to try and collect the money.

 

I wouldn't think they would sue for the member's details, but sue for the X amount of money they are owned from RA-AUS registered aircraft. Just going through the process would cost us more money then it's worth, even if we did win. Make a deal with the 2 largest Aviation Charges company, that way the details aren't shared to the public. Or charge a fee for every forward to bill to pay for the postage and cost of staff time ($5 or something?).

 

If you leave it up to the members and they don't pay, we will all get screwed. RA-AUS aircraft will not be welcome at aerodromes that have trouble locating payment.

The legal issue is that they want aircraft details not member details - they MAY be able to have a right to access members details but aircraft detaisl tied to membership is a different issue. My point is legal not policy. Legally they may have no right to the actual information they ask for.

Policy wise I personally think non-disclosure is a better starting position for the association.

 

I am in now way saying we sould not pay landing fees - I have always done so and will continue to - its just that in the areas I have worked and the overseas experience on this particular area there are real issues that need to be considered. A few bad apples in the RAA flying fleet should not mean we would as an entire fleet be subject to disclosure that may have unpleaseant and unintended outcomes.

 

And also see my other post today - the issue 7 of the Ops manual, signed off by CASA - has completely removed the need to display regn numbers on the aircraft ... fly naked ultralights today becasue this will be corrected with an amendment to the Tech manual ... but due to timing issues today is a naked ultralight day, no regn display required ;-)

 

 

[rhysmcc]

That's still going to cost us money to fight it in court. Just give them the data.

 

 

[ave8rr]

I seem to recall ticking a box in a Raaus document asking if I wanted my details kept private.I had a landing fee invoice forwarded on to me from Raa from a council in WA. So my details were kept private.

They just sent on the invoice.

 

Happy with that arrangement.

 

Phil

Why should RAAus have to spend time forwarding on landing fee bills??

Let Avdata have the Register so they can collect what is owed.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

The issue is that when someone sends RAAus an invoice for $7 we then spend $10 in labour, postage and lost opportunity for the labour (ie instead of doing this they could have earnt money for the association) moving it on. We also then end up in the middle of the transaction where we have no need or want to be. If someone wants to recover some $ from the owner of vehicle ABC-123 are they really going to sue the RTA or dept motor transport (or whatever your state calls it) for not providing them with owners detail???? Will someone really commence legal action over $7 or even $700......Saying you'll sue a collective for the sins of some of the individuals seems flawed to me...would someone sue a council if 3 people had wronged you and all you knew was that they lived in the town the council serviced?

 

I voted to stop this waste of RAAus time and effort in a year we are not going to make ends meet, I then immediately provided my details to AVDATA so no one could claim that I was merely trying to avoid landing fees. All Avdata want is you rego, your email and your postal address. I have heard of folk being billed for transactions they didn't commit, if that's the case I'll take that up with AVDATA rather than RAAus because its only logical to do that.

 

Andy