Admin Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Where did the other thread go?Despite bickering there was some good stuff in there It was about accidents so it was put in the correct forum Incidents and Accidents
Powerin Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Could the 40 include the GA failures? Aren't the 27 that we have just the RAA numbers? The GA register only has about 140 Jab aircraft and engines from a quick search.
Mr Mal Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 I wonder if this applies to an experimental amateur built(VH registered) and RAAus registered aircraft or just the certified VH registered ones?... I think it applies to all 'Jabiru Powered Aircraft' as CASA proposes that the owner has a responsibility to place placarding in the aircraft stating single person use etc - this will be 24, 19 and VH from my reading of the legislative draft.
Bruce Tuncks Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Yes if you choose to buy a low-cost and light air-cooled engine then you should be aware that it needs to be operated with more care than a liquid-cooled one. Of course they have a higher failure rate, since they can overheat. Can anybody honestly tell me of an engine that just passed the turnover test ( that is had good compressions and felt smooth and bouncy), was running below 150 C on all cylinders, and had a properly tight and balanced prop, and had proper fuel (with no possibility of detonation) , and which had all cylinders getting the same mixture ( no lean cylinder).....suddenly failing? I guess that with enough engines out there it could happen. I haven't seen one myself though, and there are plenty of Jabirus around here. The Jabiru flight manual says to operate the plane in such a way that engine stoppage will not cause an accident. There are times when I can't maintain a safe glide to a good landing and therefore break this instruction, and this is caused by CASA not by Jabiru. When going over the hills to the east of Gawler, planes like mine are forced to fly lower than safe with COMPLETELY UNUSED airspace in the 2000 feet above us, when those extra 2000 feet would always give you a safe glide to an airstrip. So we blame Jabiru for not making a failure-proof engine but we don't blame CASA for forcing us to fly lower than safe. 5 1 1
facthunter Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Good argument. There is far too little airspace available that should be, for the "lower end "users. Nev
fly_tornado Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Bruce the problem is that engines keep failing, its not the 30s anymore
motzartmerv Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 So we blame Jabiru for not making a failure-proof engine but we don't blame CASA for forcing us to fly lower than safe. Good point Bruce. The division of airspace in Aus is a disgrace. But I dont think CASA decide on this. I could be wrong but im sure airspace is an Airservices thing.
Guest Andys@coffs Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Yeah the irony for Gawler was that if Bruce is talking about the airspace I think he was then I was told (By an ex RAAF guy) it was set up that way to allow a fully fuelled Mirage from ARDU at RAAF Edinburgh to take off turn immediately towards RAAF Williamtown (near Newcastle NSW) and make it with min reserves......the only remaining mirage at Edinburgh is the one on the pole at the front gate but..if they ever get it down the airspace is there just waiting...... Andy
turboplanner Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Customer always right and strong consumer laws here is why everything in Aus is expensiveImporter or retailer carry heavy risk burden inc consequential claims. Sad but many customers stretch rights and expectations. If businesses didnt draw a line they wouldnt be in business long. At some point a customer is never going to be happy and will continue to cost. How well this is managed is the key of customer service. Unfortunately also Id say an aircraft goes outside normal consumer protection. You are covered under $40K, or over $40K if its for personal or household use There are some overriding concepts too like fit for purpose but thats a long debate. An issue noted here is market is still buying aircraft, and has done for some years, market forces maybe not impacting as much as they might. Looking positively this shows what a solid aircraft they could be. If you buy a product and there is a disagreement with the supplier for whatever reason, the starting point for doing something about it is to check out the Competition and Consumer Act 2010 and if you think the supplier has contravened some part of this, then go see a lawyer for advice. State Tribunals have been set up to hear these matters, for example: Victoria: Victorian Civil and Administrative Tribunal NSW: The Administrative Decisions Tribunal of NSW Qld: Queensland Civil & Administrative Tribunal These tribunals have been set up for minimum cost, so you don't have to go through a lawyer, but my advice is that you do, because lawyers know the Act well, and they know which parts of what you see as a claim are emotional, and which are solid argument, and they know the same about the supplier. Everyone's issues will be different, and any payouts might be a lot smaller than you think because the Tribunal looks at the whole picture. A classic is the car buyer claiming for the total cost of a new car because a transmission needed to be repaired "and it's not new any more"
Guest Andys@coffs Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 No Such an expected approach is illogical and unconstitutional there exists no "get out of jail free" cards that can be played in real life! Does it mean they are deserving of respect and honour in terms of the things they did to achieve those awards, Absolutely Does a query by CASA mean that they should not be receiving the support of those other government agencies that they otherwise might reasonably expect. No they are as entitled as always IMHO. Andy Ps (Unrelated to the J question in any way) Deb, I see from your avatar that you've had a sex change operation over the weekend...How's that working out...clearly hasn't impacted your typing skills..... Do you have a male name you prefer now?
Guest Andys@coffs Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 If you haven't chosen a name you might consider "Brett" I don't know why but when I read what you write that's the name that for some reason comes to mind.....
Powerin Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 For the amount of money that they bring to the country in employment and exports, they should be considered for a manufacturing grant of similar to ensure that their product remains strong in the market.Who has the power to make this happen? Where do you stop? What about Brumby, AAK, Lightwing or even Morgan? I produce nearly $500K in exports....I wouldn't a mind a bit of that grant too. 1 1
rankamateur Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Topic for another thread.Let's get back to Jabirus. Where is that sex change thread, and who was the astute commrade who picked this about ten days after deborahlwayman appeared, making the accusation of gender disguise?
turboplanner Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 ...and the spelling has improved out of sight too! 1
Captain Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Latest from Jabiru is just in and at ........... http://us9.campaign-archive2.com/?u=380eb6fb927f7f05a141b8b5e&id=01abf69f2a&e=7f0e2c0fcd 1 1
Thruster87 Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Email from Jabiru ; Jabiru informed the meeting that it had been sending tear down engine reports to CASA Airworthiness section for many years without any request for more information or updates on Jabiru’s engine development, until urgent requests last week. It was also explained, that getting accurate information on incidents was difficult without any sharing of information between ATSB, CASA, RAA, Jabiru and cooperation from operators. Many of you have been asking for statistics regarding through bolt incidences. Since 2005 to date Jabiru has produced a total of 3,665 engines. In that same period there have been 35 through bolt incidences, some occurring in flight and some detected during routine maintenance inspections. 1 2
Guest Andys@coffs Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Motz....your only saying that cause they happened at your FTF............joke...No really JOKE!!!!! <Runs away in fear thinking about straw and camels back!!!> Andy
motzartmerv Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Well, 10% if them did. According to those numbers. Mind you one hasnt been reported yet (to jab) as its the basis of legal action which I cant comment on.
Thruster87 Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 A review of NTSB accident records indicated 159 accidents between 1982 and 2007 involving aircraft powered by Rotax. And as you'd expect, a fair number of those involved much of the same-old-same-old causes you'd find examining general aviation accidents—fuel starvation, VFR into IFR conditions, loss of control, carb icing, runway loss of control. But reports also cited engine problems, some with no discernable explanation. Gearbox issues have occurred and reoccurred with the Rotax models, and recently the company issued a mandatory service bulletin regarding checking the magnetic plug for metal chips and for proper lubricant. Accidents involving the other engines were far fewer—only three, for example, involving Jabiru-power; none cited the engine as a causal factor. The higher number involving Rotax-powered aircraft is understandable since Rotax has thousands more engines in service than the other manufacturers combined. The great problem in identifying engine-specific problems is that in the majority of installations, the engines power experimental/amateur-built category aircraft, where differences in mounting, accessory placement, cooling and vibration variations can instill issues that vary from one installation to another. And accidents involving Continental O-200-powered craft were as numerous as you'd expect for the length and depth of its presence in general aviation aircraft. Here again, many occurred through no fault of the engine. Still, numerous reports involved engine stoppages, heat-related power loss and other engine problems. Fuel starvation, poor maintenance, failure to observe operating limitations and some power losses lacking explanation populate the reports for both the conventional and unconventional engines. To paraphrase the words of one long-time Rotax service-center operator, the main problems involving the engines stem from many of the same types of problems—poor judgment, misuse, mismanagement and poor maintenance—befalling all aircraft. 2
Guest Andys@coffs Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Actually what about those engines that are not pulled down by J, are there L2,3 or 4's here that repair failed J engines, what do you report and to whom? I wonder if owners believe the Lx will report and I wonder if the Lx thinks the owner will report....... Andy
motzartmerv Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Yea im suss on those numbers. I know of a dozen myself, surely i cant know almost 1/3 the worlds population of through bolt victims? 1 1
fly_tornado Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 The only way to get to the truth about the issue is too get Jab to open its books up.
motzartmerv Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 No, im not saying that. I dont doubt jab have that many reports. Im suss that theres many more un reported.
fly_tornado Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 For sure, owners don't want a laundry list of faults in their log books if they are planning to sell. 1
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