Dafydd Llewellyn Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 is 'camit' .......... a jabiru engine ? You mean a CAE data-plate engine? No; and that's one of the first things to sort out. 1
Dafydd Llewellyn Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Sadly they could indeed be at risk, as I'm sure no sales will be going ahead after this. No income generally causes a business to go under very quickly. And in doing so, they would drag CAMit down with them. NOT the desired outcome. 3
Bennyboy320 Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Not a word about this on the Jabiru web site, easy fix for future customers, why not offer the Rotax as an option for people wanting to buy this particular airframe. 7 1
AeroGirl Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Well, it looks like CASA has finally cracked it with Jab, been a long time coming. It will be interesting to see if Rotax becomes an option for factory Jabiru's now...... It is going to hurt a lot of RAAUS schools though, and I feel sorry for them. 4
fly_tornado Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Jab are selling a ton of product outside of Australia, they don't need the Australian market anymore 1 5
Yenn Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Sorry. but I missed this at first and posted a similar thread. It does apply to experimental aircraft and I will have to put a placard in my Corby stating that I cannot take passengers. With lee Ungerman on the job I am sure there will be no leeway, he and I crossed horns when he was with RAAus 2
2tonne Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Right now I can see the lawyers that specialise in defamation actions punching Jabiru's number into their phone... I'm not a lawyer, but having been threatened with defamation for relatively benign remarks in the past, I am constantly amazed at some of the 'brave' comments I see on this forum. I'm not passing judgment, but just wouldn't go there myself. 1 1
2tonne Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Yes, threats are common and actual actions relatively rare in comparison I would imagine. 1
motzartmerv Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 I can see lawsuits too, but not defamation.. More along the lines of consumer rights;) 2 1
Dafydd Llewellyn Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Y'know, I got an invitation - as a lapsed member - to renew my membership of RAA, a day ago. I'm VERY glad I declined . . . 2
bexrbetter Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Jab are selling a ton of product outside of Australia, they don't need the Australian market anymore Not the point, if the engine is known to have trouble in one country, it will have a flow on effect for sales in others. Yes, threats are common and actual actions relatively rare in comparison I would imagine. One of my favorite sayings: "Threatened men live long lives".
vk3awa Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 I see on FaceBook that Rod Stiff and Sue Woods have arrived in Canberra with Legal representative to attend a meeting with Casa tomorrow morning. 1 4
old man emu Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 I think that the matter will be resolved by mid-2015. If you take a critical look at the components of the Jabiru engine, you will find that they are quite up to standard. The failures I have seen can, for the most part be sheeted straight back to the assembly procedures documented by Jabiru. Basically, the fault lies not with the bits the engine is made of, but with the ignorance of engine assembly by Jabiru. All that is needed is for a qualified , experienced engine assembler, and here I mean a person holding a CASA 'Engines" certification plus practical experience, to go to the Jabiru factory; study current engine assembly procedures to identify the deficiencies in Jabiru's technique, then write an instructional document which follows standard industry procedures. The main problem with Jabiru's assembly procedure is that they direct the use of silicone between surfaces that have to be torqued down. You just can't do that. Old Man Emu 2 1 3
fly_tornado Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 From Facebook To my many friends, 26 years is a long time in anyone’s life. Jabiru has been my total focus over this time. The trials and tribulations, joys and fears would fill several volumes. The constant has been your support. Today CASA has launched an onslaught on our business and your flying privileges. CASA has based this on spurious statistics and the commercial gripes of a few. I have tried to build a strong and safe aircraft and I reluctantly boast that in 23 years of Jabiru flight no one has been killed or seriously injured as a result of my doing. Jabiru is the safest light sport aircraft in Australia. You know that, now please tell CASA by responding to Lee Ungermann at email: [email protected] 2
fly_tornado Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Will the silent majority please become vocal as soon as possible to protect your flying privileges!! Rodney Stiff and Susan Woods have just landed in Canberra and will be meeting with CASA @ 11am tomorrow morning with Legal Representation and will be fighting for your privileges!! WE NEED YOUR SUPPORT URGENTLY by responding to Lee Ungermann at email: [email protected] 1
motzartmerv Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 We as operators have needed YOUR suport for years Rod.. And calls have fallen on deaf ears. 6 1 1
jetjr Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 What if Jabiru cannot find that solution in the time provided OR they present a rushed upgrade and it doesnt fix the issue? What about Upgrades, whos paying and who is vouching for effectiveness. Is there anyone in CASA to trust on engine design? Seems like a rushed attempt to damage manufacturer or force them into a reaction, my experience this never achieved the desired result Few RAA people will be very proud of their work i expect, as is becoming common in our society, small number of uninvolved complainers cause the imposition of restrictions and financial costs on others 5
Oscar Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 The technical research, evaluation, design, production and testing facilities to remediate this situation exist. Aircraft with some - at least - of the answers to the problems have been flying for some time, one at least with several hundred hours of 'real life' use, others also with lesser time all gathering data. There is an engine with a number of the most critical mods incorporated in it sitting right now in a test cell in SE Qld, gathering data and helping refine the test cell calibration so that it can meet all of the requirements for the approval of an EO to allow upgrades to be applied to certificated Jab engines / certifying to ASTM standards. A considerable number of the most qualified people in the world to improve the Jab engine have been working for several years to get to this point. All of that is now quite possibly moot thanks to the activities of a few. I'll leave it to others to make the judgement as to whether the incessant flow of negative commentary has assisted the cause. 3 4
Old Koreelah Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 We as operators have needed YOUR suport for years Rod.. And calls have fallen on deaf ears.. listening now? This situation is pretty much where the Allies and Germany were by 1918. Everyone knew the eventual outcome, but pride kept the slaughter going for months. A strong moderator is needed to convince Rod to put aside his stubborn pride and fully co-operate; get our best people working thru the issues in order to save a unique and valued Aussie business. If he agreed to sell Jabs with Rotax engines they'd need to enlarge the factory - and they'd still sell mobs of Jab/CAMit engines. 1 10 1 1 3
rankamateur Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 I can see lawsuits too, but not defamation.. More along the lines of consumer rights;) It will be a class action, but be prepared to gain nothing, it would push the company staright under. 2
Oscar Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 What if Jabiru cannot find that solution in the time provided OR they present a rushed upgrade and it doesnt fix the issue?What about Upgrades, whos paying and who is vouching for effectiveness. Is there anyone in CASA to trust on engine design? Seems like a rushed attempt to damage manufacturer or force them into a reaction, my experience this never achieved the desired result Few RAA people will be very proud of their work i expect, as is becoming common in our society, small number of uninvolved complainers cause the imposition of restrictions and financial costs on others jj - CASA does not have the facilities, let alone the knowledge, to undertake the modification work necessary to meet the international standards to which CASA is committed to adhere - nor is it its job. That knowledge and those facilities exist.
motzartmerv Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 All of that is now quite possibly moot thanks to the activities of a few.. Dont you mean the INACTION of a few? namely, the only people who could have stopped this....JABIRU!!!!.. Still blaming everyone else apart from those who are responsible. 9 1
01rmb Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 Somewhere between $60-100 million of aircraft made nearly worthless plus the flight training schools businesses that will go bankrupt as well as the pilots that can no longer fly as intended is going to raise a lot of motivation for compensation. Sounds like a legal case is building against CASA, RA-Aus (incl CEO and board) and others that have made inflammatory and inaccurate comments. Jabiru will cease to exist so no point looking for them. No point looking for support from RA-Aus - they were in the lead on this. Can RA-Aus even survive if over 1000 other aircraft owners and a few thousand pilots resign? Typical over reaction by the bureaucrats. With proper consultation and collaboration improvements for anything could be made - heavy handed action achieves nothing - now who will be left to make it happen? If this happens to Jabiru who else would be game to risk building an aviation business in Australia? If this doesn't get resolved in a suitable fashion, aviation in Australia is dead. 10 3
kaz3g Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 I can see lawsuits too, but not defamation.. More along the lines of consumer rights;) I mentioned years ago that The (now) Consumer Law requires goods supplied to be "fit for purpose" and gives implied warranties that sometimes extend Far beyond what the manufacturer offers in its documents. Kaz 2 3
Ultralights Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 settle down everyone, its still in draft form, not law, maybe this is the incentive jabiru needs to act before it does become law... 2 7 1 1 2
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