Rotax Factory tour

[Old Koreelah]

The first models of Suzuki GSX-R750 and 1000s were the first serious oil cooled engines although plenty of engines thru history have used oil for cooling underneath pistons and other critical areas...

...and it worked! They are damned reliable and seem to be the standard for street-derived race bikes. Although I'm an old Euro-twin fart, I have great respect for the GSX-R; they don't rev, they vibrate!

 

 

[bexrbetter]

...and it worked! They are damned reliable and seem to be the standard for street-derived race bikes. Although I'm an old Euro-twin fart, I have great respect for the GSX-R; they don't rev, they vibrate!

I rode an original 10 year old red and black 750 for 3 years, smooth as silk. Sensationally fast and light when they came out making everything else look like they were made of lead and starting a whole new era, and even now, 30 years later stunningly fast - 30 years, holy cow, where did that go ....

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

On my last outing on the track I saw numbers I'd never seen before. Like Don said recently, I've travelled an awful lot faster on a bike than I am ever likely to flying a plane.

 

If only we could get that sort of bullet-proof reliability into an aero engine. Unfortunately adapting a bike or car engine requires a PSRU which makes it heavier than a Jabiru.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

If only we could get that sort of bullet-proof reliability into an aero engine. Unfortunately adapting a bike or car engine requires a PSRU which makes it heavier than a Jabiru.

A PSRU'ed Rotax is lighter than a Jabiru of the same hp.

 

Your request is easy to meet and as I alluded to above, Rotax themselves can crap all over their own 912, it's the acceptance of the market that's the issue and not any technology limitations.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

A PSRU'ed Rotax is lighter than a Jabiru of the same hp....

You sure about that Bex?

 

 

[rgmwa]

Your request is easy to meet and as I alluded to above, Rotax themselves can crap all over their own 912, it's the acceptance of the market that's the issue and not any technology limitations.

I don't see why the market wouldn't accept a better engine. If it was that easy to do and they haven't done it, maybe there are other reasons like the cost of testing and certification, need to maintain a bigger spare parts inventory, more manuals etc that makes it uneconomical proposition.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[bexrbetter]

I don't see why the market wouldn't accept a better engine. If it was that easy to do and they haven't done it, maybe there are other reasons like the cost of testing and certification, need to maintain a bigger spare parts inventory, more manuals etc that makes it uneconomical proposition.rgmwa

Go to HBA forum and research some of the PSRU threads. I think Australians are far more adaptable to change but America is a considerably larger market and they are very conservative.

 

You sure about that Bex?

Just going off the manufacturers websites;

 

http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_engines/rotax_912ULsp.htm

 

Rotax 912UL Installed weight 61kgs

 

http://www.jabiru.net.au/engines/4-cylinder

 

Jabiru 2200 Installed weight 63 kgs

 

 

[cooperplace]

I rode an original 10 year old red and black 750 for 3 years, smooth as silk. Sensationally fast and light when they came out making everything else look like they were made of lead and starting a whole new era, and even now, 30 years later stunningly fast - 30 years, holy cow, where did that go ....

30 years, I know what you mean. It's nearly 40 yrs since I got my first bike...........distressing. But at least I survived, unlike some.

 

 

[rgmwa]

Go to HBA forum and research some of the PSRU threads. I think Australians are far more adaptable to change but America is a considerably larger market and they are very conservative.

Yes, but isn't Europe Rotax's biggest aircraft engine market? While the US is probably Rotax's biggest market for all their other engines, I doubt that US conservatism in aero engines would unduly bother Rotax. The iS engine shows that they don't mind bringing new products to market. My guess is that they simply view the 912 series as well establised mature products that perhaps could be improved but the return wouldn't justify the effort. Mind you, once your engine hits the shelves and they have some real competition, they might have to re-think their complacency. How's it going by the way?

 

rgmwa

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Rotax dominate the OEM market, if you look at similarities between a Lycoming and Continental, a viable Rotax competitor needs to produce a drop in replacement.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

I doubt that US conservatism in aero engines would unduly bother Rotax.

Note that the Rotax is a flat engine with air cooled cylinders and carbureted, I have no doubt that was to help to 'fit in' to market to the conservatives.

 

How's it going by the way?

Besides too slow, couldn't be better.

 

 

[Downunder]

I guess the fact that the 912 sells like hot cakes, and has done so for many many years at virtually any price, probably negates any need to develop the engine.

 

Auto makers needing to run a race to the next best thing is something Rotax has probably not experienced with the 912 at least...

 

I would have liked them to make a 6 cyl though....It may have sold better than the 914 ....

 

 

[bexrbetter]

I would have liked them to make a 6 cyl though....It may have sold better than the 914 ....

The 912 has been updated, larger capacity and can get EFI now. The 914 is just stupidly priced.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...The 914 is just stupidly priced.

Maybe, like Apple, they are in a position to charge what the market will bear. As an Apple Desciple, I happily pay premium, knowing they invest big bucks in (almost always) getting it right. I'll get a product that works well and has great backup.

I guess you're far from making those decisions, but after all you've invested in your engine you'll also have to set a price.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

I guess you're far from making those decisions, but after all you've invested in your engine you'll also have to set a price.

Oh, here's the thing, I work backwards to most, I set a price first where I think a product will fit and then I set about seeing what I can offer within that. The answer to your next question is 10 grand.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...The answer to your next question is 10 grand.

...then be prepared to be mobbed!

Being serious (Sirius) for a moment, I'd love to know more about the internal layout of your engine. Bolting on an exiting head is a stroke of genius, but I hope the rest of it is simplicity personified and bulletproof.

 

....and light.

 

With EFI

 

Able to run on cheap fuel.

 

Parts available in every corner store...

 

...am I asking too much?

 

 

[Downunder]

Will the market accept an opposed piston thingy design?

 

I suppose they are accepting a side valve....

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I really like the innovation of the the side-valve, but is it selling? The market is not large.

 

 

[Downunder]

Yeah, bit of a rumble when it came out but all seems quiet now.........

 

 

[bexrbetter]

...then be prepared to be mobbed!Being serious (Sirius) for a moment, I'd love to know more about the internal layout of your engine. Bolting on an exiting head is a stroke of genius, but I hope the rest of it is simplicity personified and bulletproof.

 

....and light. With EFI. Able to run on cheap fuel. Parts available in every corner store...

 

...am I asking too much?

No, you got it covered. Using a OEM cylinder head was always going to make a big difference, it is the single greatest cost to develop and produce from scratch.

 

BTW; Sirius is Mitsubishi, not me ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Sirius_engine

 

I really like the innovation of the the side-valve, but is it selling? The market is not large.

Apparently not selling well at all in the USA according to the Distributor himself. I don't know about Europe.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...BTW; Sirius is Mitsubishi, not me ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Sirius_engine

I have always thought the net is like caving: you squeeze your way into a new area, then that opens up into several mysterious little passageways that will take you who knows where?