X-Air Standard Performance?

[seb7701]

Hi All.

 

Still plane shopping. Can anyone verify the 'real world' cruise and climb performance of a standard X-air with a 582 Rotax fitted? From what I can gather, they generally cruise at 50 knots?

 

They do look like a fun machine. Interested if anyone knows of a neat one for sale in southern Qld....

 

 

[robinsm]

Cruise 55kts, climb at 2500ft 600 ft/min (better at sea level). Yes they are a fun machine and comfortable. Wider cab than a 172.

 

 

[corvairkr]

I plan 50kts @ 5500rpm and get 17lph and rate of climb of 500fpm solo and 3-400fpm at MTOW with a grey top 582 but I don't have doors on mine which I am lead to believe are good for 5kts.

 

They're a great machine and can carry 2POB and camping gear no problem.

 

You missed a bargain up here last week a tidy one was listed on EBay with a 618 with TT 280hrs $7000

 

Jason

 

 

[seb7701]

Bugger Jason, that sounded like a good one! Thanks men - sounded like a solid 50kt a least.

 

Sounds comparable to a Drifter - no slower at least. Rate of climb is a little ordinary though....

 

Looks like they take off and land in nothing at all!

 

 

[eightyknots]

I plan 50kts @ 5500rpm and get 17lph and rate of climb of 500fpm solo and 3-400fpm at MTOW with a grey top 582 but I don't have doors on mine which I am lead to believe are good for 5kts. They're a great machine and can carry 2POB and camping gear no problem.

You missed a bargain up here last week a tidy one was listed on EBay with a 618 with TT 280hrs $7000

 

Jason

An X-Air with a 618 (and with the doors in place) is probably good for close to 60 knots.

 

 

[seb7701]

Thanks E.N. - I did see a few of them around, but then heard that 618's weren't quite up to the reliability standards of the 582? Either way, as long as there is a safe 50kt, then I'm no worse off than the Drifter!

 

 

[robinsm]

You will get a safe 50kts easy. I have blue head 582, used to have grey head, both good. My 55kts was with doors. Have had it for 8 years, flown all over the state no probs. Great short take off and landing. Great for paddocks etc with shock absorber and spring suspension. Smooth landings.

 

 

[corvairkr]

I don't believe the 618 powered Xair has a significantly higher cruise speed than the 582 because of the draggy airframe but you will see an increase in climb performance,on that note my 500fpm is with me at 105kg and full tanks of 88 ltrs (standard tanks are 50ltrs)

 

Xair Ireland did a lot of testing and found the hot ticket to the best Xair performance was a 582 with a 3:1 c box and a 2 blade Duc windspoon prop and apparently you can expect a solid TAS of 55+ kts @5300rpm and around 15ltrs ph (these figures have been confirmed in the field)

 

I regularly fly with a T500 thruster and a 582 drifter and we all have similar performance except climb but I'm usually much heavier too

 

Jason

 

 

[seb7701]

Thanks gents - I appreciate some real world experience, as I did want to make sure that 50kt was assured. What sort of climb are we talking and what is the carry capacity? I saw one for sale at present with an empty weight of 244 and a MTOW of 544!!!! That's impressive, even if if climb is sacrificed a little. Michael COATES has indicated that a 3:1 gearbox ratio and decent prop is important for good performance also.

 

 

[corvairkr]

As Robinsm said you will get 50kts easy.That empty weight sounds right but MTOW is 490kg still good compared to most ultralights :)

 

 

[robinsm]

Thanks gents - I appreciate some real world experience, as I did want to make sure that 50kt was assured. What sort of climb are we talking and what is the carry capacity? I saw one for sale at present with an empty weight of 244 and a MTOW of 544!!!! That's impressive, even if if climb is sacrificed a little. Michael COATES has indicated that a 3:1 gearbox ratio and decent prop is important for good performance also.

The facts are correct. Mine rocks in at 237kg. The MTOW is for a 19 registered aircraft and yes it is 544. m I have had 2 x 110kg people in the aircraft and, albeit a little heavy, handled beautifully. I have done out landings in a paddock to help a mate with 2 up no probs. I have travelled a bit in mine and can carry, 20lts fuel on the front seat, tent, sleeping bag and assorted camping gear no probs. The setup is a 2 seater, side by side, dual controls. Love mine. Longest trip.. Goulburn..Broken hill..Cameron corner and return. Total 22 hrs flying time and not a hickup. Go to love that.

 

 

[corvairkr]

Mine is registered at 490kg as per the maximum design weight submitted to RAA by the manufacturer in the operating manual https://www.raa.asn.au/safety/airworthiness/

 

(Scroll down) as opposed to the RAA MTOW at the time.I had no choice in the matter.

 

I would give the tech manager a call to be certain

 

Jason

 

 

[robinsm]

The 19 registered owner built xair is rated at whatever the builder wants. I have checked with admin at RAA Aus. I initially registered mine at 544 when I built it, noted the manuals said 490, went to raa aus, and as I am the builder of the aircraft I set the weight. I went down this track last year during the rego debacle and found that the 490 is for 24 registered aircraft built by the manufacturer or his agent. Mr Coates is correct, it is 544 for the home built version, if you want it to be. Funny huh.

 

 

[seb7701]

Yep, looks to be 490, which certainly is nothing to sneeze at!

 

 

[robinsm]

490 is ok, still gives you 250 odd kg to play with, not bad huh?!!

 

 

[seb7701]

Definitely! Let me know if you know of any for sale, as I am starting to think this might be fun. Was considering a kit, but they seem to pop up sufficiently from time to time. Only two in the mag at present though.

 

 

[eightyknots]

Definitely! Let me know if you know of any for sale, as I am starting to think this might be fun. Was considering a kit, but they seem to pop up sufficiently from time to time. Only two in the mag at present though.

A few questions:

 

Would you consider an X-Air with flaps (F model) if it came up second hand?

 

How about the X-Air H?

 

How do second-hand X-Airs compare to new? How much are X-Air Standards new?

 

You will get a safe 50kts easy. I have blue head 582, used to have grey head, both good. My 55kts was with doors. Have had it for 8 years, flown all over the state no probs. Great short take off and landing. Great for paddocks etc with shock absorber and spring suspension. Smooth landings.

How many hours have you done on your X-Air? With 8 years experience, and with quite a bit of distance covered, do you find them reliable?

 

 

[Downunder]

Well I guess the 490 vs 544 weight begs the question. What are the different stall speeds?

 

I was looking at a kit years ago but could never decide on an engine.......

 

 

[seb7701]

A few questions:Would you consider an X-Air with flaps (F model) if it came up second hand?

 

How about the X-Air H?

 

How do second-hand X-Airs compare to new? How much are X-Air Standards new?

Sure, I would consider any of them, as they really do seem like good value and are at least still in production in terms of parts etc, which always griped me with my Drifter.

 

I think I read a Dan Johnson report where the F model wasn't really worth it due to the shorter wing?

 

I think the H model seems just terrific overall in terms of performance, accommodation etc. I am really curious though in the fact that the vast majority have Jab engines and cruise at a speed that is no more than most Jabs on climb out (at least the way I am told that they should be climbing out, namely 80kt) As such, I wonder whether they get enough cooling? That being said, I am aware that most around the world seem to have the Jab engines, despite a R912 being just perfect for them.

 

The standard kit price is around $16500 and the H kit is around $25000 according to Michael COATES, so a kit still works out quite a bit dearer, as I would love to build my own.

 

I can get engines cheap enough, but have to add around $1500 worth of instruments and $1300 ish for a prop (I believe?), as well as all other little items I have omitted. I think they are the only aircraft I would be game to attempt though.

 

 

[corvairkr]

Well I guess the 490 vs 544 weight begs the question. What are the different stall speeds?I was looking at a kit years ago but could never decide on an engine.......

The RAA MTOW is now 600kg and theoretically you could set your MTOW at that BUT the aircrafts designed structural weight is 490 kg so IMO the question should be how comfortable are you in becoming a test pilot :)

 

 

[seb7701]

So the manufacturer's designed MTOW doesn't technically supersede the RAA max? Well there you go!

 

 

[Geoff13]

So the manufacturer's designed MTOW doesn't technically supersede the RAA max? Well there you go!

My understanding is the opposite of this.

 

The manufacturers designed MTOW is dominant, up to the maximum allowed for RAA.

 

So if the design MTOW is 490 kgs that is the max it can go to.

 

If the Design MTOW is 650kgs then it can go to the RAA max of 600kg.

 

Cheers Geoff13

 

 

[robinsm]

My understanding is the opposite of this.The manufacturers designed MTOW is dominant, up to the maximum allowed for RAA.

So if the design MTOW is 490 kgs that is the max it can go to.

 

If the Design MTOW is 650kgs then it can go to the RAA max of 600kg.

 

Cheers Geoff13

For a home built kit where you provide 51% then the MTOW is whatever you want it to be up to the RAA max (this info from Raa Aus). If you buy a ready built, or get someone to build it for you then you are limited to the manufacturers limit of 490kg. The 51% build makes it your aircraft and you can do, and change, as you please. The stall speed for my aircraft is 26 to 28kts. I have 300hrs on the frame with no problems. I have enlarged the fuel tanks so they take 90lts total which makes long cross country flights more feasible. With the larger fuel tanks full but without the pilot, the weight is still only 300kg. (as opposed to 276kg with full standard tanks). Geoff, I double checked the facts with Raa Aus and no problems for an "AMATEUR BUILT !" 19 Reg aircraft.

 

 

[Geoff13]

For a home built kit where you provide 51% then the MTOW is whatever you want it to be up to the RAA max (this info from Raa Aus). If you buy a ready built, or get someone to build it for you then you are limited to the manufacturers limit of 490kg. The 51% build makes it your aircraft and you can do, and change, as you please. The stall speed for my aircraft is 26 to 28kts. I have 300hrs on the frame with no problems. I have enlarged the fuel tanks so they take 90lts total which makes long cross country flights more feasible. With the larger fuel tanks full but without the pilot, the weight is still only 300kg. (as opposed to 276kg with full standard tanks). Geoff, I double checked the facts with Raa Aus and no problems for an "AMATEUR BUILT !" 19 Reg aircraft.

Cool no worries thank you for that. I must admit that I have only been looking at buying second hand so that would explain the different perception.

 

Cheers Geoff13

 

 

[corvairkr]

Just to be clear I'm not saying you can't set your MTOW higher for your self built aircraft what I am saying is if you choose to fly grossly over your particular aircraft designers MTOW limit make sure you fully understand the potential ramifications because an RAA paperwork shuffle doesn't automatically make an airframe stronger

 

Jason