Old dog, new tricks

[Birdseye]

Long time past ATC and PPL, with a dozen or years since a brief sojourn into gliding, now getting back into recreational aviating.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Welcome, Birdseye. Location?

 

 

[Neil_S]

Long time past ATC and PPL, with a dozen or years since a brief sojourn into gliding, now getting back into recreational aviating.

Hi Birdseye, and .

 

As well as location tell us a bit about what you fly....

 

Cheers,

 

Neil

 

 

[eightyknots]

Good on you Birdseye. What will you be flying?

 

 

[Birdseye]

Located just East of Perth. Currently getting to grips with a Foxbat.

 

 

[facthunter]

Let us know how you are going. Nev

 

 

[Birdseye]

Have to come to grips with the ergos and screen first. I'm more a 'six-pack' than a synthetic vision man. The centre stick and low left side throttle is also a bit of a challenge. Overall though a very nicely put together aeroplane, one that I'm hoping to put a few hours on over the next week.

 

 

[facthunter]

The Centre stick and low throttle a will come easily with a bit of time. I'm more interested in how you come over the fence. (Speeds) Nev

 

 

[Birdseye]

Theory says that with a Vso of 32 a Vat of 41.6 is the go, but with a very light aeroplane in anything but flat calm, around 50 seems prudent. The last flight turned out a little interesting with developing gusty winds causing large variations of ASI and dictating a full stop.

 

 

[Birdseye]

Having at last had a hour when the wind wasn't gusting and the thermals weren't rising, it looks like 45 over the fence is optimum. Now if I can get this hold off and hold off thing going the aeroplane will be much happier.

 

 

[Philster2001]

I also returned to flying after 10 years out of the saddle, Jan/Feb this year at Whitegum, in the Foxbat. Nice plane and enjoyed the experience. After enjoying a few different types of RA aircraft this year I have ended up coming back full circle to GA and am now wearing the "RV grin", loving flying a very nice RV-7A out of YNTM.

 

Enjoy and maybe we'll catch up sometime around the Perth area.

 

Rgds, Phil

 

 

[facthunter]

Birdseye What do you weigh? If you are very light try strapping a weight in the other seat. I don't think being light makes it easy to fly. Nev

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Gee Nev,. . . . I thought all the Aussie registered Foxbats were fitted with twin yokes,. . . . the UK ones are all centre stick,. . . . what's the story behind that, is it an option ?

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Note centre stick on this one. . . .

[facthunter]

I'm not across all the variants Phil. I think the forked centre stick (with brake) is the latest, but there may still be options . Nev

 

 

[Birdseye]

@Phil - I certainly couldn't fault Gordon or the operation, nothing but praise.

@Nev - I like to say that I am comfortably built :-) Flying dual we are close to MTOW, so I believe that its a combination of light airframe and very powerful controls that made things hard to start with. I am progressing though! Discounting a few hours on Chippies years ago, the lightest powered aircraft I flew was the Cherokee and that has to be one of the nicest and viceless aircraft to train on ever.

 

Centre stick is standard with yokes as a factory option. _Personally_ I would go for a centre stick, but that isn't an option.

[Birdseye]

Sorry, I intended to say that I'd prefer dual sticks, but that's not a current option.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Sorry, I intended to say that I'd prefer dual sticks, but that's not a current option.

AAAhhh . . . That's what I thought you meant, . . . The single, centre mounted single grip column is the only one approved in the uk, as I mentioned before, theis has the wheelbrake handle mounted on it also, bit clumsy, but it does work, though it does neccesitate changing hands when you carry out the mage check, depending upon where on the panel the mag switch is mounted of course,. . . . but on a runup and dead cut mag check, the brake lever has of course to be squeezed on, so you don't piddle off across the rwy hold line without a clearance, or onto the grass at the side of the taxiway ( yeah, bin there )

 

All pilots in the uk are trained to park at 45 degrees to the twy to complete ground checks anyway, so the guy queueing behind doesn't get blown backwards but once familiar with the type, this comes naturally. I'm still not a fan of mounting the throttle levers on the base of the door frame though, it's cost me several pairs of ripped shorts whilst sliding my sylph like frame out of the office door after a flight. Obviously the centre single stick means that you can't have a nice, easy centre mounted push pull throttle on the centre of the panel . . .

 

I DO like the idea of a "Y" grip arrangement though, as, during my many frights in the type, "The other guy" often complained when I put my sweaty hand over his to explaing a "Follow me through on the controls" explanation ! ! We have a couple of "Savannah" aircraft based with us, (scrambles amongst memory sticks to find a photo for upload ) these are fitted with a centre "Y" stick grip. . .quite comfortable to use.

 

 

 

 

[Birdseye]

Yes there are Savannahs over here. There are a half a dozen for sale at the moment, all with the Rotax 912.

 

 

[eightyknots]

AAAhhh . . . That's what I thought you meant, . . . The single, centre mounted single grip column is the only one approved in the uk, as I mentioned before, theis has the wheelbrake handle mounted on it also, bit clumsy, but it does work, though it does neccesitate changing hands when you carry out the mage check, depending upon where on the panel the mag switch is mounted of course,. . . . but on a runup and dead cut mag check, the brake lever has of course to be squeezed on, so you don't piddle off across the rwy hold line without a clearance, or onto the grass at the side of the taxiway ( yeah, bin there )All pilots in the uk are trained to park at 45 degrees to the twy to complete ground checks anyway, so the guy queueing behind doesn't get blown backwards but once familiar with the type, this comes naturally. I'm still not a fan of mounting the throttle levers on the base of the door frame though, it's cost me several pairs of ripped shorts whilst sliding my sylph like frame out of the office door after a flight. Obviously the centre single stick means that you can't have a nice, easy centre mounted push pull throttle on the centre of the panel . . .

 

I DO like the idea of a "Y" grip arrangement though, as, during my many frights in the type, "The other guy" often complained when I put my sweaty hand over his to explaing a "Follow me through on the controls" explanation ! ! We have a couple of "Savannah" aircraft based with us, (scrambles amongst memory sticks to find a photo for upload ) these are fitted with a centre "Y" stick grip. . .quite comfortable to use.[ATTACH=full]33104[/ATTACH] This type is based upon the Zenair CH 701, dunno if those are imported into Australia . . . we like the square and chunky corrugated ally fuselage, and we call this one "Simon's SKIP " they came originally fitted with fixed full length leading edge slats, but most owners have removed these and fitted VGs as per pic. . . this ( So Simon Says. . .) increases the cruise speed by around 12 Mph . . . but only increases the stall speed by 2 mph. . . . All UK Savannahs are fitted with a Jabiru engine, quoting 80 HP [ATTACH=full]33105[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=full]33106[/ATTACH]

The cut-the-slats-install-the-VGs idea was first tried by none other than John Gilpin (JG3 on this Forum). Check out his comprehensive website: http://www.stolspeed.com/

 

 

[Phil Perry]

The cut-the-slats-install-the-VGs idea was first tried by none other than John Gilpin (JG3 on this Forum). Check out his comprehensive website: http://www.stolspeed.com/

Thanks for that Sir,. . . . and my apologies for sticking photos of the Savannah in your face, I was misinformed by a visiting NZ flying enthusiast late last year, that there were none of that type in Australia. . . . . ( as far as he knew . . . )

 

Thanks for the link to John's web page.

 

Phil

 

 

[BoxFat]

Welcome Birdseye. You made a good choice going to Gordon at WGF, albeit at not the easiest time of the year due to the heat and turbulence. He runs a slick operation and has just the right combination of rigour and common sense as an instructor in my opinion. Best way to get some smooth air flying in is to take a few days off and stay overnight in one of the cabins. That way you can fly near first and last light (which is beautiful anyway) and not have to dodge the kamikaze roos on the drive from Perth.

 

The Foxbat is a good place to start for a converting GA pilot too (I will declare an interest as I liked it so much I bought one from Gordon, it's now based at Bindoon). There are real differences between UL and GA flying and I like aspects of both. The Foxbat sits squarely in the middle of the spectrum - I can fly it in and out of Jandakot on my PPL and it just feels like a more fun version of a Cessna. Then I can fly it in and out of a paddock strip (mine has the tundra tires) with trees around it with complete confidence due to the benign low speed handling. I have not flown a yoke version so can't really compare but personally I like the centre Y stick and sill mounted throttle. The latter means my arm rests in a natural position and it also keeps the left cut away panel vision down and ahead clear. There are few aircraft that give you that helicopter like view when landing. It does take some getting used to though, in terms of finding the reference point over the nose.

 

Need to be active with the feet too - not sure if the WGF FBs are wearing the tundra tires now but the fat nose wheel acts as a counter rudder so it doesn't return to central so easily. Even after 70 hours I still have to pay attention to this in the cruise to keep tracking straight. Near the ground not a problem as it is more obvious from the view outside if not.

 

Overall, a great journey you have embarked (re-embarked) on and I hope you get as much satisfaction from it as I have. I am enjoying flying more now than I did when a young fella - then I had to be the best pilot ever or nothing, now I am more realistic and easier on myself so more fun and prob learn faster too.

 

Cheers

 

BF

 

 

[Birdseye]

Well I'll start off by saying that I'd echo just about everything you say.

 

The differences from GA are certainly significant. For example I trained at a school whose focus was on the CPL, so I was taught firm arrivals were the preference to floaty full stall ones. So I had to learn to round out, hold off and hold off and hold off......and so on. The rudder is still a source of entertainment; bear in mind that I did some soaring in between GA and LSA, and I quite expected to be overusing the rudder as a result. No, that bloody ball has a mind of its own and I frequently find myself in a cruising side slip, giving Gordon a better view of the ground than perhaps he wants. Whilst not the full blown US style tundra tyres, they are rather like oversize wheelbarrow tyres and may well be doing as you suggest.

 

Operating out of largely unformed strips is quite an experience too. Many years ago I flew in and out of Ipswich (UK) a few times. A grass airfield, it was situated next door to the factory of Arthur Ransome - at the time the leading manufacturer of domestic and commercial lawn mowers, they used the airfield as a test ground and it was an absolutely superb surface that I'm sure would have Gordon rolling in the throes of orgasm!

 

In all, the LS version with the 600kg MTOW its a very practical aeroplane, allowing two persons, overnight baggage and close to full fuel. It's way better than a C150 in many ways, including cabin space and uses a fair bit less fuel.

 

I did stay up a couple of nights, but still only managed to get about 7 hours in, so I have a few days scheduled over the holiday break that will hopefully allow me to finish off what I need to do.

 

 

[BoxFat]

Ok cool. Well when you get finished over there please come up to Bindoon some time and we can have a compare notes session in my FB.

 

Re the flare and hold off be prepared for the opposite effects first time you fly a heavier aeroplane again. Flare too late and the extra momentum carries you further through the round out and into the pavement rather harder than desired. I did this last time when doing my ppl BFR in a C172 and both the aeroplane and I made an audible "ooff" sound.

 

Right now I'm going for the whiskey bottle hard in an effort to get the image of "Gordon rolling around in orgasm" out of my head. Aaaargggh

 

 

[Birdseye]

Sorry about the the latter, but I know how he'd love to operate from smooth green grass. Who needs an excuse for a whisky anyway!