SARTIME registration id confusion !

[JUSTNUZZA]

Why is AIRSERVICES Australia not able to accept recreational Aircraft call signs ? If you lodge a SARTIME electronically you need to give it in 19, 24 etc identification. When in the air we are to call idntification. Example lodge SARTIME via NAIPS it needs 24-7357. In the air aircraft for recreational aircraft communications should be (aircraft type) STRATUS 7357. When communicating with ATC they can not identify you to communicate ? You need to use the full rego on the aircraft.

 

 

[old man emu]

Give the ATC people a fair go! They cannot be expected to know the name (and in some cases the performance envelope) of every make of Flutterbug, Puddlehopper, Slickchick that is operating. Sure, they would be familiar with the more common RAA types. By simply saying those two first numbers, you switch them onto the fact that they are talking to an RAA airplane. If I heard a call with the identifier 24-1234, I'd be aware that it was an RAA type.

 

With respect, as far a type "Stratus", I wouldn't be able to readily know (identify?) what that was, simply because there are so many makes of airplane in the RAA hangar.

 

Old Man Emu

 

 

[jetjr]

When you lodge over phone they ask for how you identify

 

I have had a few issues where they didnt get lodged or couldnt find it when I went to cancel?

 

 

[shags_j]

Hi guys,

 

Given that ATC only ever rarely deal with 24 or 19 reg most don't understand how it works. Also if you lodge your flight plan as 24-1234 and call up "flutterbug 1234" we need to look up the flight plan which we would have to guess either 24 or 19. Most ATC wouldn't even know to try it with those numbers in front.

 

Given that most ATC don't even know how the rego works for these things be a bit kind when dealing with them. I am trying to raise awareness of these things when I see it on my sector but can't help you on the rest of the country. I am a bit amazed that nowhere in our training do we cover the 24 or 19 reg or even the existence of non vh reg acft. Tower guys probably get more exposure to enroute.

 

And remember:

 

AIP ENR 1.1-85

 

52.2.3 The preferred method to cancel a SARTIME is via telephone to

 

CENSAR on 1800 814 931. When telephone facilities are not

 

available you may use ATS frequencies.

 

Although of course if you need to change enroute then we will be happy to help where we can.

 

Cheers,

 

Shags

 

 

[rhysmcc]

Why is AIRSERVICES Australia not able to accept recreational Aircraft call signs ? If you lodge a SARTIME electronically you need to give it in 19, 24 etc identification. When in the air we are to call idntification. Example lodge SARTIME via NAIPS it needs 24-7357. In the air aircraft for recreational aircraft communications should be (aircraft type) STRATUS 7357. When communicating with ATC they can not identify you to communicate ? You need to use the full rego on the aircraft.

Out of interest, what do you put as your call sign on your flight plan. I believe it only accepts up to 7 characters. I've seen plans as JAB1234 and ones with just 1234 but I think a more universal system needs to be agreed on, such as UL1234, easy to look up as there is no guessing game as to the 3 letter abbreviation of the aircraft type. Your call then could be "STRATUS Ultra Light 7357".

 

 

[shags_j]

Yeah I've seen guys here do the same ie. TEC1234 but I leave it as 24 1234 since technically that's the rego and the acft type I'd already in the flight plan

 

 

[JUSTNUZZA]

Out of interest, what do you put as your call sign on your flight plan. I believe it only accepts up to 7 characters. I've seen plans as JAB1234 and ones with just 1234 but I think a more universal system needs to be agreed on, such as UL1234, easy to look up as there is no guessing game as to the 3 letter abbreviation of the aircraft type. Your call then could be "STRATUS Ultra Light 7357".

I use 247357 in my flight plan. It will not accept STRATUS7357.

 

 

[JUSTNUZZA]

Give the ATC people a fair go! They cannot be expected to know the name (and in some cases the performance envelope) of every make of Flutterbug, Puddlehopper, Slickchick that is operating. Sure, they would be familiar with the more common RAA types. By simply saying those two first numbers, you switch them onto the fact that they are talking to an RAA airplane. If I heard a call with the identifier 24-1234, I'd be aware that it was an RAA type.With respect, as far a type "Stratus", I wouldn't be able to readily know (identify?) what that was, simply because there are so many makes of airplane in the RAA hangar.

 

Old Man Emu

No problem with ATC. The problem is with the NAIPS aircraft CALL SIGN identification.

 

 

[rhysmcc]

Yeah I've seen guys here do the same ie. TEC1234 but I leave it as 24 1234 since technically that's the rego and the acft type I'd already in the flight plan

But there is a difference between Aircraft Rego and Aircraft Callsign, our problem is not knowing the 3 letter designator for each aircraft type. I'm sure i've seen a memo or brief using the UL1234 call sign before, will need to have a search. Be interesting to see what the guys operating in controlled airspace every day use.

 

 

[rhysmcc]

I use 247357 in my flight plan. It will not accept STRATUS7357.

I think most controllers will struggle to locate your flight plan (and SARTIME) as they wouldn't search for 247357 unless that's what you call yourself. They (controllers) search by call sign only, not by rego or aircraft type or any other details.

 

 

[JUSTNUZZA]

I think most controllers will struggle to locate your flight plan (and SARTIME) as they wouldn't search for 247357 unless that's what you call yourself. They (controllers) search by call sign only, not by rego or aircraft type or any other details.

Yes but if NAIPS let you enter STRATUS7357 in as the aircraft id for the Sartime when calling ATC as STRATUS7357 they would be able to locate your Sartime and there would be no issue.

 

 

[rhysmcc]

You need to find out what the 3 letter abbreviation for STRATUS is and use that. More then likely you'll need to tell ATC what it is too when you call up. If you use 247357 in the plan/sartime, then tell them that's your call sign.

 

For example, Jabiru 24-1234 would plan JAB1234, when they call up as Jabiru 1234, ATC search JAB1234 and match you with the flight plan/sartime.

 

The limit of 7 characters isn't a function of NAIPS, it's because that's what the ATC system uses based on ICAO standard.

 

I agree with you that there needs to be a better system, such as the UL1234 standard, however most days it's not an issue for air services so until RA-AUS gets CTA access and it's a regular thing doubt it will be looked at.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

It is possible for a 19-1234 and a 24-1234 to be in the same part of the world at the same time, if both JABs then there is potential for a fatal confusion. It sounds like just the sort of thing that is sorted out after a couple of fatals.

 

 

[dazza 38]

It is possible for a 19-1234 and a 24-1234 to be in the same part of the world at the same time, if both JABs then there is potential for a fatal confusion. It sounds like just the sort of thing that is sorted out after a couple of fatals.

Nope, the four numbers in the registration are only used once. Eg- there will only be one 24- 7030 and not 24-7030, 19-7030 etc.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Thanks, I am surprised to learn that. Makes things a lot simpler.

 

 

[old man emu]

Nope, the four numbers in the registration are only used once. Eg- there will only be one 24- 7030 and not 24-7030, 19-7030 etc.

Strewth! Someone at RAA got a dose of foresight one day.

 

OME

 

 

[nong]

With rare exceptions, why would an RAAus pilot lodge a plan or lodge a SAR time?

 

 

[frank marriott]

For flight plans, which works seamlessly, for me anyway,

 

Aircraft ID: XXXX (The four numbers)

 

Aircraft Registration: 24XXXX

 

Aircraft type : The offical abbrev. e.g. Jab4

 

I don't know what happens at the controllers end, but works fine.

 

I only submit a plan when going into CTA, no reason to otherwise, VFR (which of course is our only option)

 

Never tried to submit a sartime on its own.

 

(The southern areas with more traffic might be different)

 

 

[KRviator]

With rare exceptions, why would an RAAus pilot lodge a plan or lodge a SAR time?

I would hope all RAAus pilots would lodge a SARtime on across-country. And as for submitting a flight plan, I'd do it if I was looking for flight following. It's nice to have someone looking over you if you're out there alone, and you're already on area if something goes pear-shaped.

[jetjr]

I lodge Sartime every flight outside local area

 

Free, easy and might be a big help one day

 

As part of the sartime you can enter really basic plan too, ie dct or via

 

I do it all over phone wherever possible, Im always asked and clarified as to callsign not rego.

 

giving rego numbers just confuses them

 

 

[JUSTNUZZA]

W

 

With rare exceptions, why would an RAAus pilot lodge a plan or lodge a SAR time?

Who is going to come and look for you if you don't submit a SARTIME when you are on a cross country. You may be stranded in a paddock in the middle of nowhere and for some reason your epirb failed or you where unable to activate it ?

 

 

[dazza 38]

WWho is going to come and look for you if you don't submit a SARTIME when you are on a cross country. You may be stranded in a paddock in the middle of nowhere and for some reason your epirb failed or you where unable to activate it ?

By leaving a flight note with somebody responsible.

 

 

[JUSTNUZZA]

Fair enough. I would still rather have it logged in the Airservices system in case something happened to that responsible person.

 

By leaving a flight note with somebody responsible.

iir

 

 

[shags_j]

Either way is fine so long as someone is holding SAR. Benefit to giving it to Airservices to hold is that it is taken very seriously and will not be misplaced.

 

I should know this but does it cost anything to lodge sartimes?

 

 

[facthunter]

Might cost you if you don't cancel. Nev