L1 Maintainer Training and Assessment Site

[Keenaviator]

Never heard of a heart bolt, speak english and describe exactly what they want, not some obscure term. How the hell can you treat this seriously if they dont write in english for us poor home builders that only have an engineering background, not a hang gliding background. GRRRRRRR.Br a shame to miss out on this L1 thing because I dont speak slang, have no "skin? in the game .. knuckles or what...etc. For petes sake speak english, not giberish.)

It, 'heart bolt', is a misnomer anyway. The so called 'heart bolt' of a hang glider refered to a bolt that went vertically throuth the cross bar centre plate and the keel of the older gliders like a Moyes Mars 170 (not the 150 o 190 since they had floating cross bars). All subsequent developments of hang gliders had floating cross bars which assisted with 'billow shift' which is part of how a hang glider turns.

So, the big import bolt that attaches the trike mast to the wing is a HANG bolt.

 

 

[jetjr]

The whole point of a standardised course is to ensure everyone is at the same level ON THESE ISSUES

 

Issuing L1 based on previous knowledge would undermine the process

 

A seriously qualified Jet mechanic may not know RAA regulations and limitations of the L1 maintainer

 

Having to do this doesnt degrade you or you capability and really isnt much imposition

 

Poor quality L1 maintenance is a big problem. Scary how much wrong info comes out of L2 around the place.

 

 

[dazza 38]

The whole point of a standardised course is to ensure everyone is at the same level ON THESE ISSUESIssuing L1 based on previous knowledge would undermine the process

A seriously qualified Jet mechanic may not know RAA regulations and limitations of the L1 maintainer

 

Having to do this doesnt degrade you or you capability and really isnt much imposition

 

Poor quality L1 maintenance is a big problem. Scary how much wrong info comes out of L2 around the place.

Yeah I was just playing around.

 

 

[facthunter]

Eliminate snake oil fixes/ patch ups.. Do it once .. Do it RIGHT. If you are not sure of what to do check with someone who KNOWS. Nev

 

 

[robinsm]

so write the training manual in english...HEART BOLT

 

for goodness sake

 

 

[saccani]

So if I just send a copy my Advanced cert in aircraft maintenance and my Certificate of Proficiency Aircraft mechanic (airframe) certifcate from NSW Department of industrial relations under the 1989 industrial & commercial training act and I was a aircraft technician on F111 and Tornado jets for 12 years Blah blah to Barnfield. I should be kosher ?

Nope. That doesn't show that you understand the RAA legal framework and approved sources of data. Most of it is about this, not technical matters. Much like the Maintenance Procedures Course for ABAA and ABEA, with a mild dose of basic technical questions.

Cheers,

 

Paul

 

 

[saccani]

Original and correct .... if you are using an Airbourne trike ... try the French (tanarg), USA (evolution Revo), or UK (P&M, Medway) or other countries and it will not be the original or correct name ... even here in OZ all handbooks and partlists for trikes made in the rest of the world will call them hang bolts.But, hey, got to love the Australian centric world view

In Italian production, it is also called a heartbolt.... It is also called that in the UK and Germany. Though hang bolt is probably a better name - the rest of the world also uses heartbolt.

 

Cheers,

 

Paul

 

 

[DonRamsay]

I had some fun with it this afternoon as the RA-Aus site seemed to be down for a while and I kept getting odd error messages. All it took was a phone call to RA-Aus to ask if the server was down and in the middle of the phone conversation it came back up and all was good.

 

Personally, I like the idea of checking your knowledge of the legal requirements. Just working through the study guide brings you up to speed pretty quickly. I like it better than the HF tests.

 

I hope they do something similar with the new Ops Manual as it forces you to read and absorb it whether you think you need to or not.

 

 

[saccani]

I had some fun with it this afternoon as the RA-Aus site seemed to be down for a while and I kept getting odd error messages. All it took was a phone call to RA-Aus to ask if the server was down and in the middle of the phone conversation it came back up and all was good.Personally, I like the idea of checking your knowledge of the legal requirements. Just working through the study guide brings you up to speed pretty quickly. I like it better than the HF tests.

I hope they do something similar with the new Ops Manual as it forces you to read and absorb it whether you think you need to or not.

I think that doing something similar for the Ops Manual is a pretty good idea - it need not be compulsory to be useful.

 

Did you get a valid Knowledge Deficiency Report out of it?

 

Cheers,

 

Paul

 

 

[kasper]

 

In Italian production, it is also called a heartbolt.... It is also called that in the UK and Germany. Though hang bolt is probably a better name - the rest of the world also uses heartbolt.Cheers,

 

Paul

Paul,

I can't speak for Germany or Italy but your statement on the UK is 100% false - there were three main manufactuers from the 1980's to today in the UK and ALL of their handbooks, parts manuals and storemen refer to the bolt in question as the hang bolt - take a look at the P&M Aviation website for the download of partliests dated right back to 1985 if you like. As for universal even in Australia the French weightshift manuals and partlists refer to it in the english langage manuals as the hang bolt.

 

Everyone accepts that Airborne call it the heart bolt but in the ENGLISH LANGUAGE trike world that is not the normal/standard/accepted name. Yes the majority of trikes in OZ are from them BUT the association really should not be single manufacturer specific IMHO.

 

 

[Roundsounds]

so write the training manual in english...HEART BOLTfor goodness sake

The way I read it, the training manual was using an example extract from a random manufacturer's maintenance schedule. The manufacturer uses the term "Heart Bolt" to describe what is generically know as a Hang Bolt. The learning from the example was more about where to find information, not about aircraft types or manufacturers?

 

 

[kasper]

The way I read it, the training manual was using an example extract from a random manufacturer's maintenance schedule. The manufacturer uses the term "Heart Bolt" to describe what is generically know as a Hang Bolt. The learning from the example was more about where to find information, not about aircraft types or manufacturers?

Agree entirely - and noted that in a post up above - the point is that although its a test of looking up an item in the table its looking up a critical - probably the most critical - bolt in the entire airframe and its a non-generic name for it. Well at least 45 of the 275 weightshifts on the RAA register would not find it in their aircraft documentation.

 

 

[robinsm]

The way I read it, the training manual was using an example extract from a random manufacturer's maintenance schedule. The manufacturer uses the term "Heart Bolt" to describe what is generically know as a Hang Bolt. The learning from the example was more about where to find information, not about aircraft types or manufacturers?

maybe so, but if you dont fly hang gliders, and I would guess at least 90% of us dont, then how the hell would we know where to look for a non generic name?

 

 

[saccani]

Extract from Pegasus XL 447 Operators Handbook, 1992, Pegasus Aviation, Wiltshire, UK.

 

Paragraph 4.3.f -"Hang-point undamaged, heart-bolt and back-up strap secure."

 

Kind of looks like a UK manufacturer (P&M, to be precise) using the term "heart bolt" to refer to a hang bolt, doesn't it? ;)

 

I can provide more UK examples if you wish.

 

[ATTACH=full]33063[/ATTACH]Paul,

I can't speak for Germany or Italy but your statement on the UK is 100% false - there were three main manufactuers from the 1980's to today in the UK and ALL of their handbooks, parts manuals and storemen refer to the bolt in question as the hang bolt - take a look at the P&M Aviation website for the download of partliests dated right back to 1985 if you like. As for universal even in Australia the French weightshift manuals and partlists refer to it in the english langage manuals as the hang bolt.

 

Everyone accepts that Airborne call it the heart bolt but in the ENGLISH LANGUAGE trike world that is not the normal/standard/accepted name. Yes the majority of trikes in OZ are from them BUT the association really should not be single manufacturer specific IMHO.

Thanks for that.

 

Begging your pardon, but the original post was about using the term "heart bolt" and this being an obscure term and it then being claimed as an Australian-centric term. This term is not peculiar to Australia and is *also* used (meaning also, rather than universally used, as you seem to have taken it) in the UK, Italy and Germany (I'll add Canada and the USA to the list, for that matter), and not peculiar to Australia. As I said, I think the term "hang bolt" is better. But the point of the exercise in the training manual is to use the manufacturer maintenance manual. You need to be able to use whatever nomenclature that they have chosen. They may call the bolt "Fred", if they wish, and when you look at the maintenance schedule and see Fred, you may then need to figure out what Fred is, whether from the maintenance manual, parts manual or asking the manufacturer. I don't think the terms "Jesus nut", "Jesus bolt", "heart bolt", "Jesus strap", etc... are very helpful ones for maintenance - though I suppose they play a useful part in flight instruction. :) Far better to use a more descriptive terms, like "hang bolt", "safety strap/cable" and so on, and discourage the use of the more colourful terms. I'm also aware that UK manufacturers like P&M more usually refer to hang bolts rather than heart bolts, but it has to said that what I actually said was 100% accurate for the UK, it is *also* used there. Just please don't take the word "also" to mean "universally", a word I would have used if it was what I meant to say.

 

The worst thing about using nomenclature such as "heart bolt" is that different manufacturers have used the same term to describe bolts with very different functionality in wings of generally similar construction. This is the more important issue than the term being obscure.

 

Having said all that, the L1 maintainer has to be able to figure out the nomenclature used by their manufacturer in order to safely maintain their aircraft, and this is the worthy goal of the study guide, and to that end, I think that the manual extract referring to the heart bolt was a very good example to use. I would wager most RAA members to have never heard of such a thing, which makes the exercise all the better, in my view.

 

Cheers,

 

Paul

 

 

[Tex]

Heart; Hang; Jesus bolt, as long as you know they all mean the same thing (I did FWIW). Not uncommon to have different names for items like this across the world.

 

 

[Guest john]

Due to the uncertainty in the future regarding the new L1 requirement tests for existing RAA pilots who already have Level 1 endorsed on their licences, I contacted the RAA office today & asked them if existing RAA pilots who have Level 1 endorsement on their respective licenses, if they are compulsarily required to sit & pass the new Level 1 exams either before or on renewal of their respective licences similar to what we all had to do with the HUMAN FACTORS disaster issue which examination was as useful as an ash tray on a motor bike.

 

RAA stated today that existing RAA licence holders who have level 1 endorsed on their existing licence DO NOT have to sit the new Level 1 exam as it only applies to new pilots who obtain their RAA licence after the date of this recent requirement.

 

Lets now see if RAA print this explanation in the next Magazine or if CASA or RAA change the goal posts in the meantime & make this Level 1 exam retrospective to all past & existing RAA pilots.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

So I already have a Pilot Certificate for my home built RAA Savannah. According to the above statement I don't have to do it as I have my Pilot certificate BEFORE this came in

 

 

[saccani]

Heart; Hang; Jesus bolt, as long as you know they all mean the same thing (I did FWIW). Not uncommon to have different names for items like this across the world.

Indeed, but the problem is, the same name may not mean the same thing. Some refer to a Jesus bolt as the bolt securing a safety strap or cable for the hang point, for instance.

Cheers,

 

Paul

 

 

[Tex]

I did the exam this afternoon. It was alright, basic L1 type material and no great imposition to complete and educated me on the points I got wrong.

 

 

[Tex]

So I already have a Pilot Certificate for my home built RAA Savannah. According to the above statement I don't have to do it as I have my Pilot certificate BEFORE this came in

No and your L1 is in effect as long as you have a pilot certificate and RAA membership (Ask me how I know ).

 

 

[Yuri Gagarin]

How do you know?

 

 

[bushcaddy105]

Without the benefit of having read the above posts, I tried tonight to do the L1 test. I got to about question 28 when the system crashed, reporting "Internal Server Error" and requiring me to advise the time that this occurred. Also frustrating was the way a new connection had to be established after each question, often taking longer than it did to answer the question. Does Canberra really understand that some of us have super-slow satellite connections and that NBN is a myth in the sticks?

 

I've emailed RaAus asking for an alternative way of gaining the L1 rating, but it now appears that I don't have to do it anyway. Why couldn't they have advised us of this when sending out the advisory email?

 

 

[robinsm]

Even though I dont have to, I just sat the exam online. Passed no problem, interesting and valid questions. (no heart bolt question thank goodness)

 

 

[Tex]

How do you know?

The question may have come up elsewhere sometime

 

 

[Birdseye]

Having done the L1 exam I am now totally confused. I get an email confirming that I have passed, but with an attachment that tells me I have not???? In addition, half of the questions I got wrong were not the questions I actually answered.

 

If I interpret the intent of the exercise correctly, the aim is to educate people on where to look things up. It does do that quite well.