Do we go back to the paddock

[Garry Morgan]

It has be put to me to build a cheap (7-9K_ aircraft this would be with a motor and prop, single seat. A simple cheap and easy, to but together A four stroke motor with an electric start.

 

I would like to here what you think, as many out there I here are wanting to get away from where we are going.

 

Another project that I have been working on is a ground effect machine, that will also fly. A 4 seater twin motors that can operate on a boat licence as a ground effect it will fly at about 3m

 

A flying one will require a different licence depending on what you want to do with it .

 

A single motor can be used, but a twin motor will be much cheaper, A four stroke motor with electric start. .

 

There are so many uses a ground effect machine can be used for, and a much quicker form of transport.

 

They have been around for many years, but build mainly by boat builders ( heavy) when you build it as an aircraft it has a lot more advantages. Feed back wanted.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Ground effect won't work due to noise laws (limited sales because of restricted areas of use) - IMO.

 

Even if you could keep them quiet, Australian Government doesn't like anything new that they haven't had time to write up 238 new laws to protect us from hurting ourselves.

 

 

[ave8rr]

It has be put to me to build a cheap (7-9K_ aircraft this would be with a motor and prop, single seat. A simple cheap and easy, to but together A four stroke motor with an electric start.I would like to here what you think, as many out there I here are wanting to get away from where we are going.

Excellent idea and not too soon in coming. Would like to see you post some of your ideas on the subject.

Mike

 

 

[nomadpete]

Are you thinking Quicksilver type a/c ?

 

On the subject of ground effect, I always thought it would be a great way to get around in the Gulf country during the wet season. Possibly get good sales also as a new recreational toy.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Nomadpete, I am for anything exciting and new, I was asked for feedback and I am offering my perspective as a manufacturer who has been through the wheels. Noise abatement, safety, liability, etc are big issues for any manufacturer in Oz.

 

A good readup of each State and Territories Government "Personal Watercraft" rules and regs is a first stop. Only a fool would invest a new un-categorised product in Oz without seeing the Government's take on it first.

 

 

[Keenaviator]

Maybe something like this. It looks like a lot of fun.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Rf7ttso0Fw

 

 

[fly_tornado]

what ever happened to your motor glider prototype?

 

 

[Garry Morgan]

Noise is not a problem, I am not the first in aust there was a big one in Cains and another being built in vic. as a boat rego there are no problems, and legal.

 

The 18m single seat motor glider is under construction.

 

 

[kgwilson]

what ever happened to your motor glider prototype?

Red Tape.

 

 

[facthunter]

Seems to handle well at slow speeds.Nev

 

 

[kasper]

Are you looking at cost of kit being $7-9k

 

A. all in with engine/prop/wiring loom/instruments etc ie everything other than regn?

 

B. for a kit of materials to construct or kit of parts for assembly?

 

C. high drag/low performance (rag/tube) or low drag/high performance (covered frame enclosed)

 

The answers to these might make it easier to answer if there is actually interest.

 

 

[magishme]

I think time approx. time to build would be handy as there are quick build kits and there are materials and plan kits.

 

 

[facthunter]

Might be a return to grassroots. Good basic design with basic materials. Steel tube for the engine-pilot ,U/C cell. Wood or al tube for the rear and wood or composite spar strutted hi wing, fabric covered. Nev

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Noise is not a problem, I am not the first in aust there was a big one in Cains

I know the Airfish. Cairns, being a tourist hot spot, is quite happy to make exceptions for anything that promotes visitors, don't expect the same reception everywhere else.

 

 

 

[Downunder]

http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/thedreamclassic.html

 

http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/dreamclassic-strutbraced.html

 

http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/thedreamfantasy.html

 

 

[facthunter]

Maybe they used 503 engines etc. Not available new. Nev

 

 

[fly_tornado]

[nomadpete]

Would you call the Back Yard Flyer 'cheap' ?

 

It is around $19k US

 

 

[dazza 38]

That is the latest aircraft from Zlin Savage.

 

 

[Keenaviator]

Would you call the Back Yard Flyer 'cheap' ?It is around $19k US

I'm pretty sure this is Gary Morgan's thread. He builds aeroplanes. Something like this may be pretty economical to build. It's structure is simple. Perhaps instead of a welded aluminium tube frame (of which I'm not a fan), a riveted tubular frame. It is powered by a briggs and stratton 'v' twin engine, direct drive, probably around 35hp.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Would you call the Back Yard Flyer 'cheap' ?It is around $19k US

How much for just one? When I look at that it's the sort of thing I would expect for the $5000 $7000 - $9000 that was mentioned by the OP.

 

 

[geoffreywh]

I always admired the "Airbike" and the " Legal eagle" types But living near the sea the wind might be too much for anything like that except for early/ late flights. When I think about it , that's what I do nowadays. hmmmmmm

 

 

[facthunter]

It's more a wing loading thing than just low weight. If the aircraft has good control authority it helps a lot, but I always reckon small is harder to fly. Nev

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Gary have you had a look @ the CX5 that Dave Thatcher designed? They have built a good community out of the idea of a cheap plane

 

http://www.cx4community.com/

 

If I was in the market for a homebuilt I definitely look at something like this over a fragile tube and fabric design. It might be double the cost but it would be a lot more usable than something that will struggle in windy days.

 

One other thing you need to consider with homebuilts is that its a huge task and without support from the manufacturer or designer its beyond 99% of the population.

 

 

[paulh]

A while ago HITC had a lengthy thread with posts about his market research into basic low cost aircraft - some good thoughts there. If recreational aviation is going to grow or at least self sustain, rather than slowing dying out as the old blokes get too old (me included) then we need something that would appeal to the younger people cause we aren't going to compete with jet skis, dirt bikes, 4WD's or even paramotors etc with $60k plus aircraft, many of which don't look cool to the younger eye, or take years to build.

 

A three axis version of a trike perhaps. A simple aircraft that appeals to adventure, looks good, has a sense of fun, trailerable so it doesn't need to be hangered, isn't a full weekend commitment, and must have some sense of style and dash. (As the average rec pilot apparently does 50hrs per year which is really only 1hr per week flying around the patch, scoffing at the 50kt aeroplane is perhaps a little condescending)

 

Anything kit built would have to be easy, the quicksilver/skyranger concept of simple construction method that can be done in a garage with basic tools and without noxious fumes.

 

Aerolite 103 concept perhaps with a bit more pilot protection

 

I'll watch with interest Garry.