Do we go back to the paddock

[Downunder]

Most sports (motorsports) have some kind of "racing" which gives publicity and excitement to the public.

 

This is something recreational flying (RAA) has always missed.

 

Is there an oportunity for slow and cheap aircraft to engage in some sort of racing? Maybe a low and slow pylon type?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Can you imagine all those old guys racing their Jabirus?

 

 

[paulh]

X-Air low level plyon racing youtube clip - Original Micro Air Racing

 

 

not sure RAAus is going to allow this - seems a little lower than 500ft

 

 

[paulh]

The Moyes LiteFlite Dragonlfy - very simple, very slow, not sure how much

 

This guy must not care about over stressing the airframe but it looks like he's having fun

 

 

 

[fly_tornado]

http://www.pitmanair.com/dragonfly/DragonflyPricing2014.htm

 

you can't really build a cheap plane around an aircraft engine

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Anything kit built would have to be easy, the quicksilver/skyranger concept of simple construction method that can be done in a garage with basic tools and without noxious fumes.

I've researched build methods and build times from around the World and Morgans are already near the top of the tree so I'm confident it can be worked out.

 

 

[ruffasguts]

Gary have you had a look @ the CX5 that Dave Thatcher designed? They have built a good community out of the idea of a cheap planehttp://www.cx4community.com/

 

If I was in the market for a homebuilt I definitely look at something like this over a fragile tube and fabric design. It might be double the cost but it would be a lot more usable than something that will struggle in windy days.

 

One other thing you need to consider with homebuilts is that its a huge task and without support from the manufacturer or designer its beyond 99% of the population.

Having built a Thatcher CX4 and spent time with Dave Thatcher in his workshop during the Thatcher Flyin in Pensacola i can assure people that no sophisticated equipment is required to build these brilliant aircraft . The CX5 according to the supplied materials list costs approx US$ 23,000, my CX4 in Australia complete less engine let me buy a beer short of A$10,00

 

Mick W

 

 

[Garry Morgan]

Our super diamond is simple ,and a brigs and stratton motor would fly it. But it can be made cheaper by making a more basic design, a plan build to flying for about 7k and about 200hrs to get into the air. De rig at the end of the day and take it home. Last weekend I did 8.5 hrs flying for about $15 this is the sort of flying that is fun.and every one can afford.

 

 

[ave8rr]

Our super diamond is simple ,and a brigs and stratton motor would fly it. But it can be made cheaper by making a more basic design, a plan build to flying for about 7k and about 200hrs to get into the air. De rig at the end of the day and take it home. Last weekend I did 8.5 hrs flying for about $15 this is the sort of flying that is fun.and every one can afford.

Time frame to see something? Might be just what some folk are looking for.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

a plan build to flying for about 7k and about 200hrs to get into the air. .

So this is a "plans build" and not what you implied in the op?;

 

It has been put to me to build a cheap (7-9K) aircraft this would be with a motor and prop, single seat.

[rankamateur]

It is powered by a briggs and stratton 'v' twin engine, direct drive, probably around 35hp.

A Kohler would be a lot more use to my confidence. Loads of extreme service reliability.

 

 

[Russ]

You guys are waaay behind the times....chap NQ built a ground effect aircraft 30 yrs ago, Cessna powered, trialled it in the Deeral river, last I heard he was chasing more power out of it. Would not be surprised if it's gathering dust up here somewhere.

 

Same chap gave me a video of a massive Russian built machine, it appeared to go really well.

 

( lurker here frank A might be able to shed some light, we trialled it right at his back door , Oye frank, it was ken C's project )

 

Just googled Russian ground effect aircraft.......bingo

 

 

[Russ]

 

 

 

[bexrbetter]

A Kohler would be a lot more use to my confidence. Loads of extreme service reliability.

Trust me from inside the industry as well as have been hands on inside most of them, Robin (Subaru) all the way, head and shoulders above the rest.

 

 

[dazza 38]

A Kohler would be a lot more use to my confidence. Loads of extreme service reliability.

Our works John Deere zero turn mower has a Kohler 575 hours and it has never missed a beat.

 

 

[rankamateur]

Pull a twin cylinder B&S off the job after two or three years from new, replace it with a Kohler twin and forget it for twenty years, yet from the outside they look so similar.

 

 

[Downunder]

Weight and power being a major driving force for aviation use. I'm not sure how they stack up.

 

Something can run for 20 years but weigh a ton.......

 

The B and S has already been used in aviation conversions and performance parts are available from mower racing and "mud" boats.....

 

 

[Keenaviator]

When I mentioned at B & S being used in the Backyard Flyer, I was generalising. It may well be a kohler.... Also I wasn't saying the backyard flyer was a 7k machine when it was brought to our attention that it is in fact 19k. A cluey bloke might be able to build something like this from plans for a lot less than 19k.

 

 

[Ron5335]

Trust me from inside the industry as well as have been hands on inside most of them, Robin (Subaru) all the way, head and shoulders above the rest.

Hey bexbetter,

 

Before singing the praises of Subaru (Robin)

 

Go to Bunnings and look at the ubeaut Ryobi lawnmowers

 

Ryobi (Once recognised as a Japanese company) proudly displaying it's name, are now teaming up with Subaru (Another famous Japanese icon) together, they are offering a SUBARU EX190V as the powerplant for this mower.

 

Go a bit deeper, and you read that Ryobi is a registered name and is being used under licence, and then you read the all more familiar words "Made in China"

 

So in reality, (And lets call them the Ding Dong Motor Company in China) are working 4 hours a day to produce Subaru EX190V enines (Under Licenseof course) and the rest of the day they make the Ding Dong 190cc Vertical 4 Stroke engine that they sell for 1/4 of the price.

 

Then in bars around the world, arguments will break out from Subaru EX190V owners, about how bad and cheap the Ding Dong 190cc Vertical 4 Strokes are.. and at the end of the day.... What interests (Other than financial) do Ryobi and Subaru have in the manufacture of this mower?

 

Same situation exists with Oregan. Once a famous Canadian Company dealing in all forms of chainsaws. Now it's reached the point that the Chinese are advertising their "Cheap"

 

chainsaws have an Oregan Bar and blade........ DERR !!!!! The whole lot is MADE IN CHINA, but still the arguments prevail on who makes the better product.

 

 

[dazza 38]

My Briggs and Stratton Quattro 40 push mower was purchased in 1997 or there abouts. Still gong strong, starts first pull.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

The whole lot is MADE IN CHINA, but still the arguments prevail on who makes the better product.

Yeah, because there's just one big factory in China that everything comes out of ..... /sarcasm.

 

Please consider how silly and narrow it is for anyone to proffer that everything made in a particular country will be of the same quality level based purely because it's made in that country.

 

"So in reality, (And lets call them the Ding Dong Motor Company in China)

No "Bruce", lets call them Subaru Industrial Power Products (China), a Joint Venture company with Toyota Tsusho (China) Co., Ltd.

 

DERR !!!!! .

DUH!!!!!

 

 

[bexrbetter]

My Briggs and Stratton Quattro 40 push mower was purchased in 1997 or there abouts. Still gong strong, starts first pull.

Ever sat down and figured how few hours your mower has actually been used?

 

I'm not a fan of B&S, worked on many of them as an apprentice. They are made for a purpose, cheaply and very roughly and at their peak Briggs were making 80,000 engines per 24 hours out of their 3 American factories. They are down to about half of that now.

 

Of course your going to get the "I bought one in 1922 and haven't even changed the spark plugs yet" ones, hell I know a guy who bought a Lada Niva brand new and still drives it daily, but I have seen the B&S that come back after just a few hours as well - and there's very few Lada Nivas still running today.

 

From experience and actually having had most of them apart, I'll stick with Robin thanks.

 

 

[dazza 38]

M

 

Ever sat down and figured how few hours your mower has actually been used?I'm not a fan of B&S, worked on many of them as an apprentice. They are made for a purpose, cheaply and very roughly and at their peak Briggs were making 80,000 engines per 24 hours out of their 3 American factories. They are down to about half of that now.

 

Of course your going to get the "I bought one in 1922 and haven't even changed the spark plugs yet" ones, hell I know a guy who bought a Lada Niva brand new and still drives it daily, but I have seen the B&S that come back after just a few hours as well - and there's very few Lada Nivas still running today.

 

From experience and actually having had most of them apart, I'll stick with Robin thanks.

Mine has done a bit, I owned a acre and mowed it. Around two hours 30 minutes to mow, did that every weekend for 3 years. Then used it for approx 40 minutes each weekend every since.

 

 

[Garry Morgan]

A 40hp subaru motor v twin. Is the biggest one anyone knows of. If we could get a good cheap motor a two seater could be done. A twin engine aircraft would be good but for the legal side. There any many manfactures of the v twin motors that are cost effect and have good products. just most of them are low hp. There is some good info coming out of this thread.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

is 40 hp enough power though?