Jabiru limitations

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Folks

 

CASA has, on the last day(due holiday break) of the acting DAS prior to Mark skidmore taking over published the instrument of limitations. Details here http://casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD::pc=PC_102352

 

Andy

 

 

[Russ]

Phew.......( expected worse )

 

to the dooms day brigade......Get that into ya.

 

 

[Guest john]

Having regard for CASA'S limitations on Jabiru Aircraft powered by Jabiru engines (as opposed to Camit engines,) that have now been promulgated by CASA , it is now apparent that if Jabiru Aircraft & Camit were to negotiate a mutually COMMERCIAL JOINT AGREEMENT between both of their Companies , this would then have to be a major consideration for CASA to review & ammend their restrictions on Jabiru Aircraft, which would then be beneficial to Jabiru owners & Pilots around the world. If a mutually joint agreement cannot be negotiated successfully between these 2 good genuine Aussie Companies , then unfortunately these 2 Companies & Jabiru owners & Pilots around the world will eventually pay the price dearly.

 

 

[Camel]

The limitations are not in force yet.

 

" A copy of the limitations. The limitations must be registered by the Australian Government Office of Parliamentary Counsel, at which time CASA will publish a further notice stating that the limitations are in force."

 

 

[kaz3g]

A lot more conciliatory than the original which I thought was precipitous and unwarranted.

 

It's good to see that they have given some regard for the many submissions they received and this seems a pretty fair approach to what is undoubtedly a problem for the manufacturer, the owners of Jab powered a/c and CASA.

 

As Andy has already stated, the changes are not yet I force so the initial restrictions apply. Anyone operating outside of them at this time is taking a litigious risk if not a physical one.

 

Kaz

 

 

[fly_tornado]

As long as your paperwork is good, you are safe.

 

• Require passengers and trainee pilots flying solo to sign a statement saying they are aware of and accept the risk of an engine failure
   
   
  

 

 

 

 

[Happyflyer]

As Andy has already stated, the changes are not yet I force so the initial restrictions apply. Anyone operating outside of them at this time is taking a litigious risk if not a physical one.

Initial restrictions?

 

 

[frank marriott]

Kaz

 

There is no current restriction, only a NPRM.

 

 

[jetjr]

What about kids, can they sign a statement?

 

 

[Happyflyer]

They have thought of that. Mum or Dad have to sign their lives away!

 

 

[gandalph]

What about kids, can they sign a statement?

The parent or guardian could sign.

 

Kaz?

 

 

[kaz3g]

KazThere is no current restriction, only a NPRM.

Sory guys...getting old and having bad dreams

 

Kaz

 

 

[dazza 38]

Having regard for CASA'S limitations on Jabiru Aircraft powered by Jabiru engines (as opposed to Camit engines,) that have now been promulgated by CASA , it is now apparent that if Jabiru Aircraft & Camit were to negotiate a mutually COMMERCIAL JOINT AGREEMENT between both of their Companies , this would then have to be a major consideration for CASA to review & ammend their restrictions on Jabiru Aircraft, which would then be beneficial to Jabiru owners & Pilots around the world. If a mutually joint agreement cannot be negotiated successfully between these 2 good genuine Aussie Companies , then unfortunately these 2 Companies & Jabiru owners & Pilots around the world will eventually pay the price dearly.

I feel deja vu when I read this.

 

 

[kaz3g]

Deleted

 

 

[motzartmerv]

So we are going to need to get students and pax to sign a statement saying jabs are more likely to fail, and we have to accept the extra risk? yea nah. Im cool, I wont be sending any students solo under a waiver.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

I dont know how much "worse" it could get?

 

 

 

NoteParagraph (a), together with the definition of populous area, has the effect of prohibiting Jabiru-powered aircraft from departing from or landing at various places, including but not limited to Archerfield, Bankstown and Moorabbin Airports.

 

So No jabs ourt of several airfields.

 

AND.... This is the 'waiver' we are expected to get students and pax to sign..

 

‘I, [insert name] , PROPOSE TO TAKE A FLIGHT IN THE AIRCRAFT IDENTIFIED AS [insert registration information] (THE AIRCRAFT). I AM AWARE THAT THE CIVIL AVIATION SAFETY AUTHORITY (CASA) HAS DATA INDICATING THAT THE TYPE OF ENGINE USED IN THE AIRCRAFT HAS SUFFERED A HIGH NUMBER OF FAILURES AND RELIABILITY PROBLEMS.

 

‘I ACKNOWLEDGE THAT CASA HAS IMPOSED LIMITATIONS ON THE AIRCRAFT TO PROTECT PERSONS ON THE GROUND NOT ASSOCIATED WITH THE OPERATON OF THE AIRCRAFT, UNINFORMED PASSENGERS AND TRAINEE PILOTS. THOSE LIMITATIONS ALSO HELP PASSENGERS AND TRAINEE PILOTS TO MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION ABOUT WHETHER TO ACCEPT THE RISK OF FLIGHTS IN THE AIRCRAFT.

 

‘I NOTE CASA’S ADVICE THAT, ALTHOUGH MOST JABIRU ENGINES OPERATE NORMALLY, THERE IS AN ABNORMAL RISK THE ENGINE IN THE AIRCRAFT WILL MALFUNCTION.

 

‘I ACCEPT THE RISK OF BEING INJURED OR KILLED IN THE EVENT OF AN ENGINE MALFUNCTION DURING FLIGHT, NOTING THAT:

 

‘(A) THE AIRCRAFT MUST BE FLOWN AWAY FROM PEOPLE ON THE GROUND (AND BUILDINGS), EVEN IF THAT MEANS AN EMERGENCY LANDING AT A LOCATION THAT IS LESS SAFE FOR THAT PURPOSE; AND

 

‘(B) THE SAFETY OF AN EMERGENCY LANDING CANNOT BE GUARANTEED EVEN IF THERE IS A SUITABLE LANDING LOCATION.

 

‘I NOTE CASA’S ADVICE THAT I SHOULD NOT FLY IN THE AIRCRAFT IF I AM NOT PREPARED TO ACCEPT THE HEIGHTENED RISK INVOLVED.

 

‘I ACCEPT THE RISK NOTING THAT THE ENGINE MANUFACTURER IS WORKING TO IDENTIFY AND FIX THE ENGINE ISSUES AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

 

‘I AM AWARE THAT CASA REQUIRES MY SIGNATURE ON THIS STATEMENT BEFORE THE FLIGHT MAY COMMENCE.

 

‘SIGNED: DATE: ’

 

I dont know about you guys, or know about "gettin that into me" but anybody who flops this in front of a student and thinks they will be still sitting in front of them in 30 seconds time, lining up for a solo flight, have rocks in the head!!!

 

 

[jetjr]

The parent or guardian could sign.Kaz?

Yeah ok........ so I sign a statement saying i allow my kids to fly with me in my plane and i understand the risks?

CASA are no doubt legal masterminds

 

 

[Bikky]

Require passengers and trainee pilots flying solo to sign a statement saying they are aware of and accept the risk of an engine failure

I'm having trouble believing this! Does everything have to be completely risk free? Anything can fail at any time and at some time, certainly will. How could anyone step into an aircraft of any description without realising that there is an inherent risk?

 

The solution? Regulations!

 

Call the fun police - he's smiling.

 

 

[jetjr]

Pretty similar to any other waiver signed before "dangerou"activity

 

 

[blueline]

No restrictions apply yet.

 

If it does go ahead:

 

1. After 4,700 hours of operating Jabiru Aircraft without an engine failure my RAAus business will close.

 

2. People in my area will start flying imported aircraft with imported engines.

 

3. Safety will be damaged (based American research the safest LSA is the Jabiru - by along way!).

 

Lets hope CASA do not implement there proposal!

 

 

[blueline]

PS What the hell was the consultation about? did they even read what was submitted?

 

 

[motzartmerv]

PS What the hell was the consultation about? did they even read what was submitted?

I think they did, thats why it wasn't worse IMHO.

 

One failure a week is not something they are willing to tolerate. It could work out in the ned, if it forces a fix.

 

 

[blueline]

motzartmerv you said yourself "I dont know how much "worse" it could get? ". I agree with your earlier comment - not the one you have just made.

 

Certainly nothing I have submitted seems to have made any difference!

 

Again I just hope that this proposal is dropped!

 

 

[01rmb]

It could be worse if they had kept the no passenger restriction in place, but the fact is that CASA has taken a strong and provocative action against owners of aircraft that, depending on where you were based, will severely restrict their use. My aircraft was at Archerfield, now currently being repaired after the storms last month, so I need to find a new home once I get it back. Shame, since I had a LAME who I trusted to ensure that I had no problems who I now can't use because of his location.

 

Interesting thought - If the Jabiru engine is considered the benchmark for engines being unreliable and requiring protection from CASA for passengers, students and the general public, does every other aircraft with an engine with equivalent or worse reliability now get the same attention and restrictions?

 

Whilst improvements to reliability should be the focus of attention, it is owners and businesses that will now suffer, and who knows what Jabiru will be able to do to help rectify the situation for CASA to reverse the restrictions. Very disappointing.

 

 

[facthunter]

A very fair point you make . I have put the same situation up for consideration from the onset of what is happening here. The jabiru engine is certainly not the worst of them out there. Nev.