MTOW that mythical number

[Geoff13]

And today just to confuse the issue further, the is an aircraft advertised on the RA Aus web site. 24 rego factory built with an mtow of 630 kgs and a bew of 367 kgs. As a famous Aussie politician once said. Please explain.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

Just looked on the RAAus members market and can't find it. https://www.raa.asn.au/market/

 

 

[GAFA]

Just looked on the RAAus members market and can't find it. https://www.raa.asn.au/market/

Must have been a good look, it's the first aircraft listed:

 

https://www.raa.asn.au/market/ad.php?id=4360

 

 

[Happyflyer]

Must have been a good look, it's the first aircraft listed:https://www.raa.asn.au/market/ad.php?id=4360

A boys' look as my wife would say! Thanks.

 

 

[revsmith]

hello Geoff, met you at dalby yesterday, now I know why you knew your weights. there is another which gets seriously overlooked - c of g . one can be under mtofw but get into trouble real fast if c of g is out. had a personal experience 30 yrs ago, was taking seed out to other farm once in our Cessna . started loading seed and at breakfast decided I had enough for job, but had been loading to rear in expectation of adding more up front for correct c of g yet still below mtofwt. had get to jobitus, and didn't redo c of g calculation, well flight was interesting, great short takeoff an climb ,but didn't trim too well for cruise, hmm, brainwave did calc in flight ,hmm oh dear , got there, landed REAL carefull, got out an tail hit the dirt in front of megaboss (dad , who also is a pilot) , who then rightly gave me an earful about balance an weights, have not done it since, so tis easy to think yeah I'm below gross BUT don't forget c of g whatever the payload weight.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

And today just to confuse the issue further, the is an aircraft advertised on the RA Aus web site. 24 rego factory built with an mtow of 630 kgs and a bew of 367 kgs. As a famous Aussie politician once said. Please explain.

Must be a typo.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Must be a typo.

Yup must a typo, everybody knows the the max weight is 600 kg for a RAA registered airplane, the aircraft may possibly have a 630 MTOW but it would still be restricted to 600 kilograms while registered here.

 

 

[ayavner]

sweet lookin little ride though

 

 

[Geoff13]

hello Geoff, met you at dalby yesterday, now I know why you knew your weights. there is another which gets seriously overlooked - c of g . one can be under mtofw but get into trouble real fast if c of g is out. had a personal experience 30 yrs ago, was taking seed out to other farm once in our Cessna . started loading seed and at breakfast decided I had enough for job, but had been loading to rear in expectation of adding more up front for correct c of g yet still below mtofwt. had get to jobitus, and didn't redo c of g calculation, well flight was interesting, great short takeoff an climb ,but didn't trim too well for cruise, hmm, brainwave did calc in flight ,hmm oh dear , got there, landed REAL carefull, got out an tail hit the dirt in front of megaboss (dad , who also is a pilot) , who then rightly gave me an earful about balance an weights, have not done it since, so tis easy to think yeah I'm below gross BUT don't forget c of g whatever the payload weight.

Excellent to be able to put a face to the poster. Was a pleasure to have met you, sorry I couldn't stay around but as it was I had to duck a couple of those storms that were coming through. Got home ok though.

 

Yes isn't it a pain when you make a mistake in front of the real boss. My daughter hates it when I am at the wharf and she has to back a B/Double in. She reckons she only stuffs it up when I am there.

 

 

[Geoff13]

Must be a typo.

 

Yup must a typo, everybody knows the the max weight is 600 kg for a RAA registered airplane, the aircraft may possibly have a 630 MTOW but it would still be restricted to 600 kilograms while registered here.

One would hope so.

 

 

[dazza 38]

sweet lookin little ride though

I agree, they are made by Aerostar in Romania who also built the Yak 52's so it has a good pedigree. The MTOW gets a bit confusing , Wilkipedia says MTOW of only 450 kg, somewhere else it said 530 kg and the western world distributors all say 600 kg.

 

 

[GAFA]

A boys' look as my wife would say! Thanks.

My wife says the same when I'm looking for things.

 

 

[Geoff13]

Yep the two comments that I always hear are :-

 

1. You must have had a man look.

 

2. Girls know sizes.

 

 

[jetjr]

Reality is that many aircraft have two MTOW, depending what they are registered as

 

A higher MTOW outside RAA regs is still a good thing when comparing airframes

 

 

[facthunter]

IF the similar aircraft is in fact, identical . (airframe wise). Nev

 

 

[jetjr]

yes very true, could be differences only builder knows about

 

 

[eightyknots]

Just looked on the RAAus members market and can't find it. https://www.raa.asn.au/market/

...another dead link to the RA Aus website. Who maintains this website?

 

 

[ave8rr]

...another dead link to the RA Aus website. Who maintains this website?

New link.

https://www.raa.asn.au/

 

Then click "The Classifieds" top right hand corner. This link will take you to Aviation Advertiser who now look after all RAA adverts.

 

The first few listings are usually "featured display listings". Move down to standard listings.

 

Mike

 

 

[eightyknots]

New link.https://www.raa.asn.au/

Then click "The Classifieds" top right hand corner. This link will take you to Aviation Advertiser who now look after all RAA adverts.

 

The first few listings are usually "featured display listings". Move down to standard listings.

 

Mike

Thanks

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

I was mates with this guy who nearly died flying veggies to an oil rig in the middle east. Apparently the loaders substituted lettuce for cucumbers one day. Loaders are not renowned for their ability with c of g calcs. But in this case, the pilots forgot to check properly.

[Bruce Tuncks]

I got that wrong...  they usually had boxes of lettuce but this one day they had boxes of cucumbers which of course are much heavier.

[Bruce Tuncks]

And Space, I think we should all be more relaxed about the possibility of going to jail. I was prepared to go to jail because I ordered my kids to ride their bikes on the footpaths instead of the roads.

My idea is that jail is like a cruise ship except that the stewards are not nice to you, but the fellow inmates might be more interesting.

[spacesailor]

Max t,o,w, & balance.

Some planes have fuel tanks forward of C,G, on take off they,r nose heavy.

Great for speed !.

But at the end of the day they are tail heavy, Good for stalling, when flaring. 

Definitely not a good thing.

spacesailor

[Bruce Tuncks]

yep Space, the Jabiru has fuel slightly behind the c of g. I think this is a common thing.

On the subject of max tow, the regulations assume that you will, at maximum weight, fly at maximum allowable speed into a sharp-edged upgust of 40 knots.

In 40 years of looking for strong upgusts in a glider, I never found a climb better than 15 knots. Mind you, I did stay away from thunderstorms. Wow that 15 knot thermal had the altimeter visibly winding up. I think I stayed in it for about 5 minutes to gain 7,500 ft. This was up near Quorn, about 300km north of Adelaide, and it was 40 degrees on the ground  and a pleasant ten degrees at 10,000 ft. 

If you slow the allowable rough-air speed  down say by 5 knots, you can vastly increase the mtow , but they have a formula which stops you doing too much of this. But one guy I knew sold Top motors for gliders and he used a reduction in rough airspeed to make them legal.

 

[lee-wave]

Maybe a little confusion here...

 

'The maximum takeoff weight (MTOW) or maximum gross takeoff weight (MGTOW) or maximum takeoff mass (MTOM) of an aircraft is the maximum weight at which the pilot is allowed to attempt to take off, due to structural or other limits'..... or have I missed something here....