CASA 292/14 - Conditions and direction about Jabiru engines

[turboplanner]

They work with the data and advice they can get. In tiny niche markets thats near nothing so would pick up any data available or an informed point of view.Presently all that exists is from atsb and casa and at best its not enough to draw any conclusions from at worst tainted and full of errors.

Yes i have worked with insurance companies providing advice setting premiums and exclusions.

I wonder why the ones you allegedly have worked for wouldn't have taken the easy way and simply analysed the money paid out laid off the odds and set the premiums based on the facts, like taxying damage, hangar damage, theft, valdalism, hail/storm damage, flood damage and all the routine causes of claims before coming remotely near the gossip pedalled on here.

 

 

[jetjr]

Allegedly .....nice.

 

Because at that point they have lost money, its too late.

 

Covering small markets they have to be ahead of the game and that means low risk andmaking informed predictions.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

I once offered a service to insurance companies identifying high risks in my area of business. They didn't want to know, they need a large pool of mixed risk for their business model to work.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

My understanding of insurance is that 33% of premiums go to claims and the rest goes to overheads and profits.

 

Personally, I have never had hull insurance since it is just a bad deal. And also, why would they pay my claim when they can afford litigation and I can't?

 

It would be good to be in an insurance cooperative, but alas we are too silly as a species to do this.

 

My last contact with insurance was when a giant company quibbled for years over a small household claim. It took 2 determinations by the ombudsman because they shifted their grounds after the first finding.

 

 

[facthunter]

Insurance.....They use a standard industry wide common basis for their "odds". One company's U/L knowledge would never be a sufficient sample. I'm sure they take The CASA's action into account. It would be brought up in court as relevant information.

 

The Jabiru situation..Information or facts are what it lacks, and here we are, ONE and a half years later pretty much none the wiser. They have fixated on through bolts and still not solved that, conclusively.

 

CASA will never be the organisation to design an aero engine, and all piston engines have a relatively high failure rate, even ones with RR and P&W Bristol and Wright on them, let alone some lesser brands.

 

We are not allowed to fly a Turbine engine plane which would be much more reliable. Of course it's more thirsty and costs more.

 

The jabiru engine is more reliable than many others out there, particularly two strokes. The later version of Rotax 4 stroke doesn't appear to be too reliable either and YOU can't easily troubleshoot that one and it's too DEAR for most peasants like me.

 

I give the CASA a big FAIL on this one, because of the way they did it. They were probably counting on bullying Mr Stiff into waving a magic wand over his product and making it as reliable as the "apparent" standard, the Rotax 912 which is dearer. heavier far more complex and expensive to repair and becoming less reliable in the field with the passage of time, and has a finite legal life in terms of time since new and parts are really expensive, and it's more complex with two carbs and liquid cooling and dry sump lubrication system and all the piping and complexity of that. Nev

 

 

[geoffreywh]

Dear oh Dear. I just saw a Rotax ULS advertised with 2000 hrs on it "running well" I recently sold a School Rotax with 2020 hours on it, running well........ Jabs generally get to 400 or so hours before needing overhaul or replacement .......And quite what the new bulletin specifying.......... New Valves , Caps, Double Springs, ect ASAP. is all about only CASA can tell? maybe......

 

 

[jetjr]

Whats that got to do with insuring airframes?

 

They have stopped insuring Jabiru aircraft not engines........

 

Doesnt matter what Jabiru do with the engines now , they are still limited even after all this work is done. Even if it is a miracle fix.

 

 

[geoffreywh]

Oh So Sorry I though this thread was entitled "

 

Conditions and direction about Jabiru engines" Go and chat about your insurance elsewhere....

 

 

[jetjr]

Yeah and not how good you think rotax is, no idea why Jabiru critics flock to threads to discus the infallible 912

 

And its the limitations which have caused insurance issues affecting owners

 

 

[turboplanner]

Yeah and not how good you think rotax is, no idea why Jabiru critics flock to threads to discus the infallible 912And its the limitations which have caused insurance issues affecting owners

You able to provide a source for the outstanding claim of 2016?

 

 

[jetjr]

Assetinsure via insurance broker

 

Or im just making it up, your choice

 

 

[JimG]

Any updates on if the instrument will be lifted or amended on July 1st . ?

 

JimG

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Have CASA taken the election gap as an excuse to damage Jabiru even more by doing nothing in the meantime?

 

 

[Geoff13]

From the com law website. So with no changes or additions before midnight on Thursday????

 

1 Duration This instrument: (a) commences on 1 July 2015; and (b) expires at the end of June 2016, as if it had been repealed by another instrument

 

 

[gandalph]

From the com law website. So with no changes or additions before midnight on Thursday????1 Duration This instrument: (a) commences on 1 July 2015; and (b) expires at the end of June 2016, as if it had been repealed by another instrument

I would like to believe I'm wrong but I think it is unlikely that CASA will simply look the other way and pretend it never happened or that it's all better now. If they simply let the instrument lapse they would need to explain what has changed to make the instrument no longer required. We may get a revised instrument with some relaxation of the restrictions for engines that have been modified to a specified standard but I can't see them simply lifting the restriction. That is not likely. They'd have to save face protect arse.

Apologies to the moderators for my intemperate language.

 

 

[Geoff13]

I agree Gandalf but the next 36 hours could be interesting.

 

 

[Camel]

There are rumours and these have been said to me from the very front line, Grandalf is most likely right, the restrictions will be alterered any minute now I suspect ! The one thing that is agreed on CASA behaved badly except when you talk to CASA, the experts HAHA ! You are right Geoff, the next days will be interesting.

 

 

[geoffreywh]

Well I hope the instrument is NOT lifted as I have a recent engine pulled apart where the mainbearing shells have been spinning in the c/case. Not the first one either.

 

Not nice and Jabiru should fix it. It's an easy fix, just dowel the shells. BUT first there has to be an acceptance that there's a problem. Casa accepted it. Will Jab? Double valve springs wont do a thing.

 

 

[facthunter]

That engine problem is not confined to Jabiru. The correct crush is what's needed and multi valve springs are fitted to practically ALL aero engines. Even the humble Cont-0-200 has 3 springs. Nev

 

 

[gandalph]

Geoffreywh was it a first life engine or a rebuild?

 

 

[geoffreywh]

This particular engine was a Jabiru rebuild. Which makes the fault unforgivable. ..........................And I know it's not a problem confined to Jabiru................... Although how that mitigates the fault I can hardly imagine. Smacks a bit of "Oh they all do that" .....Double valve springs have been around for forever and a day. But why Jabiru? why now? was there an undisclosed problem with their old springs?.....Just to put people to sleep that think that I am a Jabiru knocker. I am certainly NOT. I am about to embark on an engine change for my Jodel to a Jabiru 6....."But not as we know it Jim." I plan to dry sump it, and in the space now taken up by the sump, put a inlet manifold "spider" ( as Continental. ) with an updraught carb. and w/c heads of course. That should just about take care of all the major shortcomings, 1. Too little oil. 2. Tortuous uneven inlet tract. 3. Overheating. 4. Overheating, did I add overheating?. Just for good measure a proper alternator.

 

 

[facthunter]

I agree with your first line. But, do you really NOT want the instrument to be lifted? If they keep on doing what they have done, which is somewhat nonsensical, there won't be any future for anything with Jabiru on it. We got rid of Victa Jabiru under threat and Morgan leaving. Is that the way things should be here? We are big enough to have an aviation Industry. Canada have a substantial one and New Zealand as usual punches above it's weight. Nev

 

 

[Camel]

I agree with your first line. But, do you really NOT want the instrument to be lifted? If they keep on doing what they have done, which is somewhat nonsensical, there won't be any future for anything with Jabiru on it. We got rid of Victa Jabiru under threat and Morgan leaving. Is that the way things should be here? We are big enough to have an aviation Industry. Canada have a substantial one and New Zealand as usual punches above it's weight. Nev

Well said Nev, oh don't forget Foxcon ! I think there may be others !

 

 

[geoffreywh]

I understand, But should the instrument be lifted then Jabiru (engines) will probably carry on and do exactly nothing...... Better no Jabiru engines than unreliable Jabiru engines.... Be airframe manufacturers, very good at that they are!...There are a myriad of engines available......It's a dreadful shame that the brand has gone down this road ( Head in sand , it's the maintainer's , fuel's, oil's, pilot's, anybody's fault but mine) ... Remember " the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour"......As long as CASA has their foot on Jabiru's throat we may see improvements ( as we have already seen) Instrument lifted = fast track development stops. BTW, Canada and New Zealand do not support an engine manufacturer. They cherry pick the best available as we should be doing.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

I understand, But should the instrument be lifted then Jabiru (engines) will probably carry on and do exactly nothing...... Better no Jabiru engines than unreliable Jabiru engines.... Be airframe manufacturers, very good at that they are!...There are a myriad of engines available......It's a dreadful shame that the brand has gone down this road ( Head in sand , it's the maintainer's , fuel's, oil's, pilot's, anybody's fault but mine) ... Remember " the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour"......As long as CASA has their foot on Jabiru's throat we may see improvements ( as we have already seen) Instrument lifted = fast track development stops. BTW, Canada and New Zealand do not support an engine manufacturer. They cherry pick the best available as we should be doing.

Sort of true - but BRP owns Rotax. Built on a 70-year tradition of excellence and headquartered in the Canadian town of Valcourt, Québec, BRP owns manufacturing facilities in Canada, the United States, Mexico, Finland, and Austria, and has a total workforce of more than 7,900 people.