CASA 292/14 - Conditions and direction about Jabiru engines

[gandalph]

I said there was nothing there in my statement to John.

Yes. Understood. I really don't understand why you're still banging on about it. I asked if you had inside information. You've said you don't. Everyone's happy that you're not holding anything back. End of story.

As for the new engine, yes, I'll be very interested to see how it performs. I hope for the sake of Aus aviation that that it's a winner. CAE engines are free of the instrument's restrictions so fingers crossed for the 2210. My aircraft is not yet ready to fly so I am less affected by CASA's actions than some here. But that doesn't mean I don't feel their pain. And that's why I asked if you had any information to share. No sinister motive behind it and no need to get defensive about it.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Oscar's posts are probably right on the money, but the problem is CASA's new leader is burdened with the grenade his predecessor tossed over his shoulder as he departed.

 

Perhaps if the heat dies down the Instrument might be quietly lifted. Pushing CASA's new boss into a corner might make that less likely.

 

 

[Oscar]

OK, it is hard to not agree with the sentiment of letting the sleeping dogs lie and hoping it will go away, but I do believe that that path is potentially fraught with possibly as much danger as the alternative.

 

CASA's action in this matter basically ignored a number of the key principles expressed in the Forsythe Report (ASRR) - especially those relating to consultation with the industry and the application of 'a just culture' - see the Executive Summary Recommendations 14, 17, 18.

 

On 3 December 2014, the Ministerial Statement included specifically, acceptance of:

 

• Australia's regulatory approach and responses should be based on a sound assessment of the level of risk associated with particular aviation operations;
   
   
  
• aviation agencies and industry should work closely together to identify aviation safety risks and ensure that the most appropriate methods, practices and technologies are adopted to address and reduce these risks;
   
   
  
• a strong “just culture” approach must underpin better information sharing between industry and safety agencies as information sharing assists in preventing future safety events and reflects international best practice;
   
   
  

 

 

 

CASA's action directly ignored those principles, less than 30 days after they were stated in Parliament. Skidmore cannot be held to blame for that, as you have said - it was a grenade tossed over his shoulder by the departing Acting DAS.

 

RAA should not have to be pushed into the role of 'champion' for the Aviation industry against CASA simply continuing on its merry way, conducting business as usual. But it would appear that Sport Aviation in general is low-hanging fruit in the view of some elements in CASA and frankly I suspect that unless there is resistance, it's likely that it could remain so. Again, that raises the specter of 'who is next' on CASA's hit list.

 

Further, this is one fight that isn't simply an issue of principles - it is extremely likely that real damage has been done. Anecdotally, we are getting reports of FTFs caught in the pincer-grip of reduced revenue because of both the restrictions and the perception that has been generated, yet unable to change their fleet because of the inability to realise a decent value for their Jabirus and a high change-over cost to replace them. It may be useful if RAA can survey the situation of FTFs after six months of operating under the restrictions; the economic health of FTFs is very likely to be a key indicator of the future activity for the RAA community.

 

I am personally a great believer in avoiding entering a fight you can't win, but there needs to be a judgement made also about the potential of failing to prosecute a fight you can't afford to lose. From the RAA presentation at Cessnock, it seems to me that RAA was saying very clearly that it simply does not KNOW (officially, at least) whether the CASA action was valid and reasonable, and I think the stance the Board is taking is a pretty decent balance between antagonising CASA and protecting the interests of its members.

 

If RAA gets rolled on even being provided with access to the justification for this action, then what chance does it have in the case of future action by CASA that may be unloaded on us?

 

 

[turboplanner]

Fatuous is as fatuous does Oscar.

 

The Forsyth report carries no legal weight and has been filed in the various offices months ago, so it is pointless dwelling on it.

 

When the government is made aware of a safety issue, it historically has acted fast, and historically has been utterly ruthless, some of the past victims being Leyland, International Harvester, and Dodge who were made extinct as a result of braking requirements which were impossible to achieve with Australian production volumes.

 

So you can survey all you like, and while the financial impact will be traumatic for those involved, there are many who have been similarly traumatised in the past, and went down doing what you suggest.

 

If you genuinely want to get to the bottom of this and prevent it happening again, find out who asked for this instrument in the first place.

 

 

[Russ]

yes turbs, last sentence requires an answer.........who.

 

But the "bully" needs to be taken on, he's out of line. Until the bully is genuinely called to account, it will be business as usual. As a saying goes......."its time"

 

Adopting "the position" and taking it you know where, is not an option.

 

 

[gandalph]

Fatuous is as fatuous does

I like your new motto Turbs. It's nice to see the light of honest self assessment shining at last from the hall of the mountain king.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I like your new motto Turbs. It's nice to see the light of honest self assessment shining at last from the hall of the mountain king.

Ah, a dyslexic problem; I'll try to provide better explanations in the future

 

 

[gandalph]

Ah, a dyslexic problem; I'll try to provide better explanations in the future

Please.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Not a problem; I always try to help people who have difficulties.

 

 

[SDQDI]

 

 

Seriously, get a room you two.........

 

 

[gandalph]

No Mate, I'm not dyslexic. I thought you were saying you were. Sorry if you were confused.

 

 

[turboplanner]

 

Seriously, get a room you two.........

I've given them all they need to make a difference with this issue, so we'll see where they go in the interests of other flyers and operators.

 

 

[Oscar]

It would appear that the new CASA DAS is rather more attuned to the aviation community, than some:

 

http://www.australianflying.com.au/news/casa-has-scope-for-improvement-skidmore

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

If CASA actually believed that Jabiru engines were at risk of failing in flight then they would ensure that Jabiru engined flights had a glide-path to an acceptable landing zone. This could be done without any compromise at all to the separation between us and airline operations.

 

Their complete failure to address this issue is proof positive that their only agenda here is to increase their bureaucratic power by outsmarting the mug politicians who are their only threat.

 

The failure to provide safe glides ( when possible ) for our operations shows a truly shocking disregard for our safety.

 

 

[gandalph]

It would appear that the new CASA DAS is rather more attuned to the aviation community, than some:http://www.australianflying.com.au/news/casa-has-scope-for-improvement-skidmore

The final paragraph gives some hope that positive changes are coming.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Fixed that article

 

"At all stages we need a better dialogue with the aviation community to allow us to communicate, consult meaningfully and to listen carefully to all constructive feedback. Most importantly, CASA needs to put more effort into educating and training our own people about the [dangers of Jabiru engines,] new regulations and their implementation so we can give clear and consistent advice to the aviation community."

 

 

[gandalph]

Ho Hum. F.T. Quiet night?

 

 

[Aldo]

If you genuinely want to get to the bottom of this and prevent it happening again, find out who asked for this instrument in the first place

I have no evidence but I think you will find quite a bit of intense lobbying came from within RAA member ranks by a select few.

 

Aldo

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Where's your evidence Aldo?

 

 

[Aldo]

Where's your evidence Aldo?

Gee read the post FT not to hard to comprehend that one really simple words

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Your theory is that the conspiracy goes ...

 

all the way to the top, but you have no direct evidence or empirical evidence or pattern of behaviour to justify your belief.

 

Just a feeling in your gut?

 

 

[facthunter]

"Member ranks" doesn't implicate anyone at the top. Individual members can do what they like and you can't stop them unless it involves slander or deliberate falsehood.{ CASA accept anonimous reports, but they wouldn't have the standing of something signed. ( no follow up possible}

 

. Ordinary members (theoretically) could lose their membership on some " ALLEGED" failing, like when they wouldn't renew Ian Bakers status to try and get rid of him. some time back. That sort of stunt would be highly unlikely curently

 

IF the board had it's fingers all over it it would be a different matter , and rightfully be our concern.

 

I'm not encouraging any witch hunt either. CASA have taken an action. There's no secret about that,, and they are required to explain and justify it at the end of the day. Any other circumstances would deny people their rights at law and proper process. Nev

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Aldo, what if a lot of Jabiru owners where getting pissed off with Rod Stiff's attitude and decided to tip off CASA?

 

 

[facthunter]

Rod has done a lot of virtually free repairs in the past. I think a fair bit of the treatment you get depends on a persons attitude, and how you approach the matter. Slander and defamation doesn't seem to worry you ft? Nev

 

 

[fly_tornado]

But what if over the years there has been a steady stream of tip offs from Jabiru owners that have had issues with their Jabirus and CASA set an arbitrary limit of say 1000 reports and Jabiru's number was up last year?

 

You miss the point, Rod was never fixing engines those engines for "free".