CASA 292/14 - Conditions and direction about Jabiru engines

[gandalph]

This is an old video.

And your point is?

 

 

[Chris Tarran]

This is an old video.

Jan 2014. Thought is was relevant in light of posts 1120 & 1125.

 

 

[Oscar]

Good grief - is there a rash of destroyed Jab 230's from damn fool attempted beach take-offs in Enzed? I know we Aussies tend to be a bit patronising of our small-island brethren, but I certainly wasn't aware that I should refer to that particular incident as 'one of' their recent stuff-ups....

 

 

[frank marriott]

Microman, I hereby bet you that my Jabiru can take off in less than 300 metres. Are you up for a grand ? The loser donates $1000 to this site. The winner gets a warm glow from being right.

Bruce ,

After you rip a $1000 of him I'm up for it as well, but I will keep the $1000 for future fuel purchases.

 

 

[dazza 38]

And your point is?

My point is that it has already been posted on here.

 

 

[Oscar]

True - but as visual evidence of the text (eventually) referenced in post #1130, it is a good reminder to consider the reliabilioty of the postulations on Jabiru engines of someone who might have made all of the cumulative mistakes admitted by the author of that piece with full knowledge of how really far off the mark some people can get.

 

To put it more simply: would you trust the opinion of someone who has demonstrated that they are a f#ckwit? Obviously, we cannot sheet that condition home to Ornis, of whom we have NO evidence he was the PIC in a take-off that would feature in a Mack Sennet film. But he might like to enlighten us as to just who was the idiot...

 

 

[Ada Elle]

Go look at the figures - which are the result of certified/ certificated testing. J230-D: ground roll 226 metres (0.14 miles) , to 50 feet: 356 metres. That is at MTOW, at an ICAO 'standard' ambient temp and zero AMSL. Achieved by professional test pilots to CASA standards, for the POH. Before you start bagging out an aircraft, perhaps you should look at what its real performance figures - under certification/certifying conditions - are. The POH figures are not just drawn out of a hat - they are legally defensible results drawn from testing under specified conditions by approved test pilots.

... with a brand new engine, that's not a little bit down on compression, and making full RPMs...

 

(I've flown a jab that refused to beat 500fpm climb continuous, despite what the POH says, and that would have been at a speed that would have soaked in a bit of heat into the engine too).

 

How many Jabs are flown at a 0 density altitude? I would think that your average Jab takeoff is in >500ft of density altitude.

 

 

[microman]

Perhaps I should have been a bit more specific in my sweeping assertion (slightly tongue in cheek) about Jabs climb rates - to be fair the ones I have seen have mostly been the earlier short-wing models with the 4 cylinder engine. - the later ones with the 6 cylinder engine are clearly very much improved - however Oscar's suggestion that pilot ability (or lack of it) is a factor is nothing more than a red herring - all the skill in the world cant overcome a lack of performance!

 

 

[SDQDI]

That's what my wife says:blush:

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Microman, you will be pleased to know that mines an old one ( 1998) with short wings. There is a picture of it in front of you. So you will be taking the bet?

 

 

[Russ]

Perhaps I should have been a bit more specific in my sweeping assertion (slightly tongue in cheek) about Jabs climb rates - to be fair the ones I have seen have mostly been the earlier short-wing models with the 4 cylinder engine. - the later ones with the 6 cylinder engine are clearly very much improved - however Oscar's suggestion that pilot ability (or lack of it) is a factor is nothing more than a red herring - all the skill in the world cant overcome a lack of performance!

maaate.......stay in the shearing shed, and i'm SERIOUS....( "you" and a grain of salt, go well in the same sentence ) my lill old short winged, 4 cyl jab, home strip 2500asl, every single day, disproves your assetions here. ( maybe NZ air is super skinny stuff, maybe NZ props are paper mache.......gota be sumin going on there )

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Whats wrong with shearing sheds? Here's the one I come over when I land at the farm on the 550m Nth Sth strip. If you JUST miss the shearing shed, you will stop before the fence at the far end.

 

 

 

[jetboy]

Bruce, with an approach like that, aren't ewe cutting it a bit fine?

 

 

[Russ]

oye......jetboy, ...........ewe trying to pull the wool over his eyes, or what...??

 

 

[highwing]

Does anyone know what is happening with the Jab operating limitations? Apparently CASA's Airworthiness department is happy with Jab engines now, but the limitations are still in force and I was wondering if anyone knows why?

 

 

[jetjr]

12 pages of repeated dribble here

 

http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/jabiru-2016-update.145712/

 

Same people sayong same things, some still believe CASA did good work

 

 

[gandalph]

Does anyone know what is happening with the Jab operating limitations? Apparently CASA's Airworthiness department is happy with Jab engines now, but the limitations are still in force and I was wondering if anyone knows why?

Highwing,

It is always harder, and takes much longer to stuff the genie back into the bottle than to let it out.

 

 

[facthunter]

Don't start something you can't stop or exit. If you do you are a Fw. and in the wrong job, but that should be able to be remedied. Nev

 

 

[scre80]

Anyone know of any updates on this restriction? It is due to expire in 3 weeks. All seems to have gone quiet.

 

 

[Camel]

Anyone know of any updates on this restriction? It is due to expire in 3 weeks. All seems to have gone quiet.

Yes, very quite, I think casa want It quite so they can forget this bloody crap mess they made ! Reports I heard say if it stays quite it will go away, if it don't there will be a lot of noise ! Let's see, as I'm ready to make a lot of noise.

 

 

[Jabiru Phil]

My source says that engines with latest mods will be exempt from the restrictions.

 

The rest will stay as is.

 

The "A" and "B" argument put forward by the honourable senator

 

PHIL.

 

 

[Oscar]

That makes sense as a way for CASA to get out of the situation while everybody is looking at other matters (like Elections!), and gets the possibility of a Senate Inquiry off its back.

 

Presumably, Jabiru will come out with a definition of 'compliant with latest mods.' - the latest release of the Engine Maintenance Manual should be adequate for that but I haven't studied it. You would certainly want to be absolutely sure your log-books are 100% ticketty-boo on the exact status of the engine before assuming you can fly without restriction as per the CASA notice.

 

 

[jetjr]

CASA would be busy writing apologies and compensation cheques wouldnt they?

 

Problem is that to meet current specs would require full tear down and possibly no way forward for solid lifter models.

 

Not sure where it leaves Certificated models who cant change anything much

 

 

[Oscar]

Good point re the problems for owners of Certificated... this would be a VERY good time for the MARAP to get real, with a blanket approval process for the change-over.

 

 

[Jaba-who]

There would be the option for owners of old engines to send their engines back to jabiru to have them overhauled and upgraded. Or continue with the limitation if they want to avoid the cost.

 

As much as that irks it is probably going to be the option that gives CASA the option with the least amount of liability.