jetjr Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 TP, please stop worrying about our safety, we assessed and purchased an aircraft and fly in them. Thousands of current pilots and RAA members do. 960 Jabirus flew around Australia for last 6 or 7 years without engine failure. Many are Ok taking those odds. Many are flying experimental aircraft, maybe with horrible build and design flaws, engine is the last of their worries. They also maintain them themselves! Go and start a forum for those concerned about shark bite or lightning strike. Doubt youd find anyone concerned about getting hit by an ultralight. Many here are up to their neck in the problem and dont need someone bleeting on about how much they deserve the problem or how dangerous you feel the aircraft are. As predicted, this action has enabled a expensive, fix version 3, most likely to just placate CASA. A pessimist might say end result is:- engines the same, owners poorer, lots of aircraft pushed into experimental where they can do whatever they like, Jabiru damaged, RAA damaged, several other aviation businesses near destroyed, flight schools out of work. What was the aim again? Safety right? RAA - whom most of us are members, HAVE seen the data and claim it is flawed and misrepresented. Good enough for me Its NOT over. owners are still hemorrhaging money and have a right to debate and push to have bad regulation overturned. 2 5 1
biggles Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 Go and start a forum for those concerned about shark bite or lightning strike. . 1
Oscar Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 Maybe we care about safety, don't want anyone hurt, and don't want our flying restricted in the future. You know, I'd be more convinced about your concern for 'safety' if I had a feeling that you extended that concern beyond Jabiru. I readily admit to a hyper-active Bullsh1t Detector Gland, so I invite you to remind me and the rest of us here about your expressions of concern for - let's just take a few outstanding examples just based of fatality rates - the crash-worthiness of RV6s, the aerodynamic and structural deficiencies of Gazelles, the horrendous fatality statistics of early Lancairs, the prominence in crash statistics of Cirrus aircraft, the failure rate of auto-engine conversions, the fatality rate in Trikes and autogyros. Merv, on my reading of your posts over the last 12 months at least, you seem fixated on Jabiru (despite the fact that in terms of fatalities / injuries, Jabiru hardly appears on the concatenated rap sheets). Tell us it ain't so, Turbs, with evidence to back up your case.
Jabiru Phil Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 Col, I know of quite a few 912s that have well beyond 2000 hours............ I still have an axe that is like new after 40 years of use. Only had two new heads and 6 handles 1
turboplanner Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 Just for you Oscar, you could refer to a few hundred non-Jabiru safety posts of mine on this site for a start. And yes, I have stayed out of aircraft or situations where the risk factor was elevated, Cirrus and Lancair being two.
Oscar Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 Just for you Oscar, you could refer to a few hundred non-Jabiru safety posts of mine on this site for a start.And yes, I have stayed out of aircraft or situations where the risk factor was elevated, Cirrus and Lancair being two. Please, Turbs - just to humour me here - give some examples? I applaud your personal application of realistic concerns regarding Cirrus and Lancair aircraft, but can you enlighten us as to when you have alerted the rest of us to the dangers there?
turboplanner Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 Ah, a comedian in the face of the issue of the day.
Oscar Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 Ah, a comedian in the face of the issue of the day. Not comedy, Turbs. If you think that applying justifiable concerns to the actual (not potential issues here) fatality and injury rate for light aircraft is a laughing matter, I most certainly don't share that view. I have asked you to demonstrate that your expressed concerns for the safety of aircraft owners, operators, passengers and those on the ground below where they fly is unequivocal and not constrained by bias against any one manufacturer. Your response is, to me, the sine qua non of your obsession against Jabiru.
Happyflyer Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 Just for you Oscar, you could refer to a few hundred non-Jabiru safety posts of mine on this site for a start.And yes, I have stayed out of aircraft or situations where the risk factor was elevated, Cirrus and Lancair being two. Cirrus! I have a quite a few hours in Cirrus aircraft and find them a very safe aircraft. However, the increased performance of the aircraft must be matched by increased performance of the pilot! So, it's no so much the make of aircraft that makes them unsafe, it's the pilot! There is no substitute for hours and currency and that costs big money in a Cirrus. The yanks have tried to automate things but nothing changes the fact you are doing 3 miles per minute. I have to agree with TP in that I would hesitate to get into a high performance aircraft with a pilot who only does a few hours a year, especially if I am not in the front! 1
Russ Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 Acquaintance took delivery last yr of an imported craft, applauded widely for its short field performance, used by some in training as well. Casting my eye over it I was shocked at the unbelievably weak point seat belt anchors, just flimsy metal angles, riveted to airframe. I would bet my left n&t that any reasonable impact, would fail to restrain a pump up doll. But not to worry, it's Rotax powered, and that's all that counts......apparently. ( forgot......it's imported, so that's also Ok )
gandalph Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 I have asked you to demonstrate that your expressed concerns for the safety of aircraft owners, operators, passengers and those on the ground below where they fly is unequivocal and not constrained by bias against any one manufacturer. Yeah, well good luck with that. You should understand that we live in a Nanny State and that Nanny knows what is best for us. The Great Nanny does not have to explain himself he merely has to pronounce. He who said he has been collecting statistics: " for which my own first statistics start in 2007, around 7 years ago" ,(post #43) now "doesn't place much store in statistics" (post #168) Which is it to be Turbs? Are the statistics, in which you now don't place much store, suggesting that the sky may not actually be falling? Seems like you're having a few bob each way. Credibility noun 1 plausibility, believability, acceptability, tenability, probability, likelihood, authority, authoritativeness, impressiveness, cogency, weight, validity, soundness; truth, veracity, faithfulness, fidelity, authenticity, accuracy, factualness. ANTONYMS implausibility.
Camel Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 It's over Camel, the decision was made in December, picking words out of everyone's posts isn't going to change it. Don't go flying turbo ! It's too dangerous for you in anything as it is inherently dangerous ! It ain't over until we say it's over as it effects those with Jabiru or want a Jabiru! I pity those in CASA that think they have been clever as I think they will be the losers, seriously why do it this way. I never give up on something I feel strongly about, I believe there will be no respect for CASA for a long time unless sorted soon !! 2
turboplanner Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 He who said he has been collecting statistics: " for which my own first statistics start in 2007, around 7 years ago" ,(post #43) now "doesn't place much store in statistics" (post #168)Which is it to be Turbs? Are the statistics, in which you now don't place much store, suggesting that the sky may not actually be falling? I'm happy with the two posts in their contexts. Yes, if I'd put footnotes, or code-identified the different uses, that would have been more precise, but this is just a fun forum. in #43, I was referring to RAA-only statistics which started in 2007. This put 2007 as a published time when the current issues were being reported. i.e. a time reference. in #168 The statistics I was referring to were based on the preceding lines which indicated we were never going to get the ACCURATE total some people are screaming for. i.e. a different context for the word "statistics". So no I'm not having a few bob each way. Someone asked me what I would do way back in one of the early threads, before the limitations were applied, or even public consultation had occurred, and I posted it way back then.
Oscar Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 I've lost interest Oscar, sorry. Not capable of providing a response to the nitty-gritty questions, Turbs? Ah, well, Heaven forfend I should question your susceptibilities. Some would say that homeopathetic solutions to aviation safety are not solutions at all, but as a prominent member of your political persuasion has stated, everyone has a right to be bigot and therefore to lose interest in validating her/his interests.
turboplanner Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 Don't go flying turbo ! It's too dangerous for you in anything as it is inherently dangerous ! I went speedway racing for twelve years Camel and didn't have any problems handling that inherently dangerous sport. I was well trained in my early flying days to accept I was in an inherently dangerous activity which could be quite safe if I applied the correct training procedures and airmanship. I'm in a happy place.
turboplanner Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 Not capable of providing a response to the nitty-gritty questions, Turbs? No, just bored with the endless dribble.
gandalph Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 No, just bored with the endless dribble. The Great Nanny does not have to explain himself he merely has to pronounce.
SDQDI Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 Well isn't all this fighting between pilots productive:throw pc: Your all crazy lol:loopy: 1 5
fly_tornado Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 Acquaintance took delivery last yr of an imported craft, applauded widely for its short field performance, used by some in training as well. Casting my eye over it I was shocked at the unbelievably weak point seat belt anchors, just flimsy metal angles, riveted to airframe. I would bet my left n&t that any reasonable impact, would fail to restrain a pump up doll. But not to worry, it's Rotax powered, and that's all that counts......apparently. ( forgot......it's imported, so that's also Ok ) you would be surprised how well rivets hold things together!
David Isaac Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 Well isn't all this fighting between pilots productive:throw pc:Your all crazy lol:loopy: I agree Sam, Poor taste and pathetic actually. Turbo has put up untold posts on safety matters across a broad spectrum on this forum over the years, I don't see him as biased on this Jabiru issue. It is just that what he is saying is not liked by a few ... and that is just the way it is. Challenge him as you will on his merits, but at least behave like adults please. 3
Guest Ornis Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 CASA has judged there is a serious problem with Jabiru engines. What are some arguments against CASA intervention? It's against the rules. CASA are charlatans. Insufficient evidence. RA-Aus objects. Some engines are sound. All engines stop. If it stops, land safely as instructed. Aviation is risky anyway. No one has died in a Jabiru. Or on the ground. May be unreliable but not unsafe. It's not the best way forward. An attack on recreational aviation. Australian manufacturer. It's inconvenient. It's cost money. Jabiru is a family.
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