Cardiac pacemaker

[Soleair]

Has anybody had a pacemaker implant? Are you still allowed to fly as PIC in RAA aircraft? Any restrictions?

 

TIA

 

Bruce

 

 

[ayavner]

According to the RAA -

 

If you:

 

 Suffer from epilepsy

 

 Suffer from diabetes

 

 Suffer from a heart condition / disease or paralysis or

 

 Mental illness (medicated or otherwise) or

 

 Are 75 years of age or over

 

You will need a medical statement from your doctor stating that you

 

are fit to drive a motor vehicle.

 

So, assuming that falls under "heart condition", here is the medical statement referred to above:

 

https://www.raa.asn.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Medical-Questionnaire-and-Examination-Form-1st-September-2014.pdf

 

So i'd say short answer is probably "yes" you would be allowed, assuming you can get a signoff on that form.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

I know of a commerical pilot with a pacemaker so should not be an issue with RAAus if it is not an issue with CASA.

 

 

[408059]

Bruce

 

My RAA CFI has one. As long as you are able to get a medical clearance as indicated above you should be fine.

 

Cheers

 

Steve

 

 

[motzartmerv]

It depends on the type. A defribulating pacer is a no go.

 

 

[aro]

According to the RAA -If you:

 

 Suffer from epilepsy

 

 Suffer from diabetes

 

 Suffer from a heart condition / disease or paralysis or

 

 Mental illness (medicated or otherwise) or

 

 Are 75 years of age or over

 

You will need a medical statement from your doctor stating that you

 

are fit to drive a motor vehicle.

 

So, assuming that falls under "heart condition", here is the medical statement referred to above:

 

https://www.raa.asn.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Medical-Questionnaire-and-Examination-Form-1st-September-2014.pdf

Interesting form. It seems a lot more than "a medical statement from your doctor stating that you are fit to drive a motor vehicle."

 

It basically means that RAA is a Health Services Provider for the purposes of the Privacy Act, and they are collecting Sensitive Personal Information.

 

I wonder whether they comply with Privacy Act requirements for handling that type of information?

 

http://www.oaic.gov.au/privacy/privacy-resources/privacy-guides/guide-to-information-security

 

 

[Yenn]

Have a look at Ausroads criteria for medical assesment for a drivers licence.

 

I thought that we had to just state that we were of a medical standard that we could have a drivers licence. In which case if you have a drivers licence you should be OK. Unless you are over 75 in Qld, when you have to carry a doctors certificate when you drive.

 

 

[Soleair]

Thanks guys.

 

It's very hard to get a definitive answer. From my research on the web, I cannot get a Recreational Aviation Medical Practitioner's certificate, as a pacemaker (no, it's not a defibulator) precludes this. But CASA's website doesn't give any indication of what options are open after that.

 

I've had all sorts of contradictory advice from websites, DAMEs, & flying instructors. It's not easy.

 

As I understand it, I am fit to drive a 12 seater minbus on the highway but evidently CASA requires more input than this to allow me to fly a single seat homebuilt low & slow.

 

CASA's website instructs me to enquire of a DAME if I cannot meet the RAMP criteria, but as I say, I've had 2 contradictory answers from 2 different DAMEs.

 

Not very helpful, CASA.

 

Bruce

 

 

[aro]

According to the RAA ops manual, all you need is a statement from your doctor that you are fit to drive a motor vehicle. No requirement for CASA involvement, DAMEs, or a Recreational Aviation Medical Practitioner's certificate.

 

The questionnaire and examination form linked above appears to be something that someone has tacked on over and above what the rules say. (Not the first time that has happened, and why I continue with GA rather than the constantly moving goalposts of RAA.)

 

Despite what the RAA ops manual says, I suspect that they would withhold your certificate if you only provided a statement from your doctor that you are fit to drive a motor vehicle without the questionnaire and examination form. I wonder whether RAA actually employs anyone qualified to evaluate these forms i.e. a medical doctor?

 

It's very hard to get a definitive answer.

That's because in aviation, many people operate according to their own opinion of what the rules should say, rather than what they actually say...

 

 

[rhysmcc]

Is that not the form required for an instructor who doesn't have a Class 2 Medical, rather then for a normal Pilot Certificate?

 

 

[ayavner]

The orginal medical statement form is here, on the ra-aus website:

 

https://www.raa.asn.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Recreational-Aviation-Australia-Medical-Declaration-Revised-November-2014.pdf

 

which is the one most of us are used to. But on the form, it lists those conditions, then states you will need the medical statement from the doctor, blah blah.

 

- which then takes us to this form, noted above: https://www.raa.asn.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Medical-Questionnaire-and-Examination-Form-1st-September-2014.pdf

 

the last page of which is the statement from the physician:

 

RECOMMENDATION BY MEDICAL EXAMINER

 

I _____________________________ do declare, _________________________________

 

( Full Name) (Applicant Full Name)

 

is medically fit to be issued with a vehicle driver licence and to operate a recreational aircraft in Australia.

 

It looks like a new addition since 1st September, which is also when Part 61 went live.

 

 

[aro]

Is that not the form required for an instructor who doesn't have a Class 2 Medical, rather then for a normal Pilot Certificate?

Hmmm, yes it appears you are correct, according to the ops manual that form is for instructors without a class 2 medical.

 

So the answer to the original question seems to be that you need a statement from your GP that you meet the health standard to drive a motor vehicle, and you must also comply with any conditions or restrictions that apply to your drivers license.

 

I am still not convinced that RAA has the medical expertise to perform health assessments, I would rather see a requirement that instructors hold a class 2 medical and be done with it...

 

 

[rhysmcc]

A medical statement from your doctor doesn't mean another form has to be completed, rather a simple statement from the doctor. If they wanted that form, then it should clearly say that.

 

 

[rankamateur]

https://www.raa.asn.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Medical-Questionnaire-and-Examination-Form-1st-September-2014.pdf

This thing is more like a life insurance policy disclosure statement than a drivers competency test, what difference if I have had an AIDS test, and so what if I don't have a dentist.

 

This is mini GA gone mad! Who writes this stuff?

 

Good job I have never been diagnosed with any of my problems.

 

 

[ayavner]

yes, i have found in almost every organisation, there appear to be people whose only job is writing forms... I should think the State's willingness to issue me a driver's licence should be sufficient, if all they need is proof one is sufficiently fit to drive a car... If someone is so unwell/unfit that they cannot reasonably drive, then I imagine either the State would refuse it in the first place, or take it away/restrict it.

 

yes those things can be "gotten around", but that's a product of dishonesty and would be no different whether we are talking about planes, cars, or boats.

 

"look boss, 2 new forms today!" "good, good.."

 

 

[rankamateur]

I just rang Jana at the RAA office, IF a doctors statement of ability to drive a car is required for your Pilot Certificate, it is just that, a statement on the doctors letterhead, signed and dated, performed annually at the time of your renewal.

 

The onerous form is only for instructors/CFI who are not GA pilots so do not have a class 2 medical, don't need it completed by a DAME for RAA only operations.

 

 

[ayavner]

Hope i didn't lead anyone astray with my interpretation, good work rank!... so short answer, if your doctor is willing to provide the said note, you should be good to go!

 

 

[rhysmcc]

yes, i have found in almost every organisation, there appear to be people whose only job is writing forms... I should think the State's willingness to issue me a driver's licence should be sufficient, if all they need is proof one is sufficiently fit to drive a car... If someone is so unwell/unfit that they cannot reasonably drive, then I imagine either the State would refuse it in the first place, or take it away/restrict it.

Having a Driver's License issued, does not mean you a medically fit to drive a motor vehicle. Just like flying the onus is on you to ensure you are medically fit prior to each occasion you hop behind the wheel. For some conditions this requires a medical certificate to be carried with you when you drive, from your doctor saying your condition does not impede your ability behind the wheel.

 

 

[Soleair]

Gosh, thanks chaps!

 

So I guess I'll attempt the path of least resistance initially, & go for the GP letter stating fitness to drive/fly. One of the doctors in the outfit I attend flies a trike, so I would hope for a sympathetic response from him.

 

I had already learned, from a previous life, that no aeroplane can fly until it has generated its own weight in paperwork. I had not, until now, realized this also applied to its pilot.

 

Lucky I've lost a lot of weight recently to be kind to my MiniMax!

 

Bruce

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

This thing is more like a life insurance policy disclosure statement than a drivers competency test, what difference if I have had an AIDS test, and so what if I don't have a dentist. This is mini GA gone mad! Who writes this stuff?

I get my dental & medical done overseas, but the same would apply - if I'm good to drive in Thailand or Vietnam would be good to fly anywhere also.

 

With RAA if you vote in CFI's, flying school owners and others that either enjoy or stand to gain from additional regulations & student or pilot requirements you will get additional regulations and requirements.

 

 

[facthunter]

That form is an alternative to a class2 for RAAus instructors only I believe. A good idea. I heard of it years ago and first time i've actually seen it. Nev

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Its a bit of a wank... You have to forward the entire questionare to the RAA. Not just the final page where the MD signs you out.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

I get my dental & medical done overseas, but the same would apply - if I'm good to drive in Thailand or Vietnam would be good to fly anywhere also.With RAA if you vote in CFI's, flying school owners and others that either enjoy or stand to gain from additional regulations & student or pilot requirements you will get additional regulations and requirements.

Why would a CFI or flying school owner want more regulation? The less regulation the easier it is to run your business.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

More student hours, BFR / conversion time etc = more $.

 

On the thread topic: "Skip your annual physical".

 

 

[Happyflyer]

More student hours, BFR / conversion time etc = more $.On the thread topic: "Skip your annual physical".

I agree about the doctors (and for that matter dentists) but for our case I think less regulation=more students=more pilots= more work = more $ if you are more positive. It's not the CFI/Owners it's the OH&S brigade that bring in more regulation. We need more CFI's and Owners making decisions for RAAus, the vast majority are in it for the love of flying.