Accident at Kyneton

[rgmwa]

Well guys, it's not something I'd like to try for real either. I'm planning to get a fire extinguisher as well - just in case the hammer doesn't work.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[poteroo]

Place your trust in compliance with all VANS SB's + good technique learned from good training - then you won't be needing the hammer! happy days,

 

 

[pylon500]

I would have thought the easiest way to solve the problem was, learn to fly a tail dragger, build a taildragger (as Vans envisioned them), and only worry about breaking propellors if you get carried away with the brakes.

 

Flame suit on, ready for the 'training wheel' set

 

 

[turboplanner]

....or going end over end and flopping upside down. It's not just breaking props. Have a look at the accident reports in the magazines.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

There's a youtube vid somewhere of a Vans with trike U/C which landed at a local grass strip just up the road a bit from where I reside, ( approx 3 years ago ) I was there at the time and witnessed it,. . . I've watched the video quite a few times as well as speaking to the pilot shortly thereafter, . . .I can't actually see what caused this, unless it was prior damage to the gear. . . the landing appeared to be quite gentle, but the nose leg failed and the aircraft flipped inverted trapping the crew inside. Fortunately it was a well attended fly - in and rescuers were on it in seconds. there was no fire and only minor injuries. . . . . . . it doesn't always have to be a tailwheel type . . . . .

 

Phil

 

*** Edited to add. . .*** The aircraft, although breaking the prop, shock loading the engine and sustaining some damage to the wingtips and vertical fin / tail components and canopy ( ! ) was repaired and flying again in under three months.

 

 

[facthunter]

The essential difference with a tailwheel is the MAIN wheels are always forward of the C of G...

 

On a tri gear, Once the nosewheel collapses, you have no hope of keeping the plane from digging the nose in. Higher than normal landing speeds will put the whole weight of the plane plus any kinetic effect OR SIDELOADS on the nosewheel, IF it isn't held off long enough to wash off speed. You should always try to land on the Mains, as only they are designed to take the weight, plus you run the risk of "wheelbarrowing" if only the nosewheel is in contact. Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

Which is what can so easily happen if you use the point and shoot method of landing.

 

 

[David Isaac]

The risk I was pointing out is the rollover risk of a bubble style canopy on a low wing regardless of the UC config. But to Nev's point, the risk of rollover is enhanced on a tricycle config for an off field landing. The tail wheel would be a safer alternative for an emergency landing.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

The essential difference with a tailwheel is the MAIN wheels are always forward of the C of G...On a tri gear, Once the nosewheel collapses, you have no hope of keeping the plane from digging the nose in. Higher than normal landing speeds will put the whole weight of the plane plus any kinetic effect OR SIDELOADS on the nosewheel, IF it isn't held off long enough to wash off speed. You should always try to land on the Mains, as only they are designed to take the weight, plus you run the risk of "wheelbarrowing" if only the nosewheel is in contact. Nev

I agree wholeheartedly with that Nev,. . . . . . . What I should also have mentioned was that that the particular incident I described highlights David's original comment re Hinged bubble canopies,. . . . in that the risk of crew entrapment will always be a factor in a low wing airframe having such a canopy, whether the U/C be conventional, trike or skis. . . and I can't think of any obvious way around it. . . . . ( Other than BETTER training . . . )

 

Phil

 

 

[facthunter]

You could make a case for a pressurised canister holding the weight of the aircraft. Could be moulded rubber actuated by CO2 like used for cordial making or a CO2 fire extinguisher. I couldn't imagine anything worse than watching the thing slowly catch on fire and not being able to get out.

 

I doubt we will get a massive swing to High Wing but it's a cause for thought.. We reckon we are serious about safety....Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

Just depends whether it's your lucky day.

 

If you're in a low wing with a canopy above the fuselage and there's a fire, it's probably goodnight, where you'd just jump out of a high wing and be gone.

 

On the other hand if you're lucky enough to come down in scrub and stay upright, it's going to be as good as a cable arrestor, whereas the high wing will continue on hitting things harder.

 

The Piper Cherokee design, where the fuselage is raised up to ceiling level may well be the best of both worlds, although I've never seen one in bits to check the structure.

 

 

[skeptic36]

Probably wouldn't be room in most low wing designs, but what about a fabric panel in the floor and a knife?

 

 

[facthunter]

Usually your wing carry through structure is there , to complicate matters.. I'm sure work could be done on this. You can lift a Landrover with a bit of compressed air. You have less than 25% of that weight to deal with. Nev

 

 

[pylon500]

it doesn't always have to be a tailwheel type

From what I can see, it is usually LESS of the tail wheel type, that end up on their back.

 

 

[dazza 38]

From the outside looking in, the tri gear RV aircraft seems to have their fair share of problems with the nose gear.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Maljack, read the reports in the official RAA magazines before contradicting them with a "creative" tag

 

 

[facthunter]

Depends sometimes on the engine installed how strong the Vans nosewheel is, but ALL nosewheels are relatively weak compared to the Mains and should be treated as such. Nev