Worst place to be a pilot.

[farri]

I noted on the program I watched, the pilots were young guys, late teens, early twenties!... Bravado? Testosterone?

 

How many pilots getting close to retirement age would want the 'challenge' of flying in those places?.... Is there anyone on this forum who has flown there?

 

Perfect weather here this morning so now I`m going to get off this computer and go flying, off my 510 mts, couple of feet amsl strip, in my Drifter and the guys full of Bravado and Testosterone, flying that sort of country, can have all the challenges to themselves.

 

 

[poteroo]

Yea, I think I would like to do one of the following. A. Try out those strips.B. Fly mountains terrain like that or. C. Fly weather like they have showed, just don't know about all three at once and doing it 100hrs a month to make a crust! And they haven't even showed the DME homing approaches yet that I've seen.

The weather they showed in the 2 editions to date has all been AM. Very little, if any, shows what the mountains look like once the daily buildups occur after about 11.00. I think it has shown things as being a little less difficult than real life - where aircraft have to fly all day. happy days,

 

 

 

 

[poteroo]

How many pilots getting close to retirement age would want the 'challenge' of flying in those places?.... Is there anyone on this forum who has flown there?

There are still a few PNG pilots up there after 10-15 years, but most move on after they rise as far as the local 'ladder' allows. Eventually, the law of averages catches up and you have an accident. It's often fatal. (see attached on Fr Joe Walachy, whom I had the pleasure of knowing in Madang 1964. He had flown 20,000 hrs in 20 years - yet still made one mistake).

 

Never flown in the Indo Papua side but flew charter 1965-1970 in PNG. Would I go back to fly the same stuff? From a flying viewpoint - yes, because it's now mostly turbine, and more often twin turbine - so lower risk than the 60's recip engines. The only reservation that I'd have is the poor security situation there, which isn't welcoming for families. happy days,

 

 

 

[farri]

Fr Joe Walachy, whom I had the pleasure of knowing in Madang 1964. He had flown 20,000 hrs in 20 years - yet still made one mistake),

Thanks for that! Damn tragedy!!!... A neighbor of mine who lived here at Deeral until he moved away a few months ago, flew the Dash 8 from Cairns to Papua New Guinea, he was also a very experienced AG pilot.We were discussing how pilots with many hrs experience can still make mistakes that cost them their life, he told me of a guy he knew well, who was also an AG pilot with 20,000 plus hrs experience, this guy decided to do a spray run into the late afternoon sun and flew into a tree.

 

When I was instructing, a guy came to me wanting to learn to fly Ultralights so that he could fly out Artifacts, from the highlands of New Guinea, my response was pretty blunt! I told him that he wouldn`t live long doing what he had in mind.

 

Completely different subject. This is the guy who was my neighbor and professional pilot.

 

http://www.cairnspost.com.au/news/cairns/ralph-smiths-flair-for-flares-has-his-eye-firmly-on-the-sun-from-viewpoint-in-far-north-queensland/story-fnjpusyw-1226863987092

 

This is his web site. http://www.eyesonthesun.com.au/

 

Frank.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Did anyone notice the Piaggio P.180 Avanti in the first episode? You get a brief glimpse of it on the tarmac when they're talking about the ground training. I saw this thing that looked like a pregnant Lear jet with pusher turboprops on the wings and thought "what the hell is THAT??"

 

 

[facthunter]

They are not turboprops . They are pistons. The Piaggio was known as the "pig" Lacking performance . Not a suitable plane for PNG. They used Piper Navahos spl? (known as never goes) Aztecs and things like DHC Otters back then. PNG is a place for suitable aircraft, but some of them weren't at the time. The Porter and Twin Otter are a big advance. The weather and the high mountains are the challenge. The poor old Douglas DC-3 did a terrific job and previously the "corrugated iron" Junkers operated by Qantas. It really is the last frontier in aviation, then and now. The DC-3's operated o a PK chart (developmental) with about 3,000 lbs overload permitted. They also had Bristol freighters with JATO.( Jet Assisted Take Off ). a pretty hairy operation with time expired bottles being generally used. Nev

 

 

[Happyflyer]

From Wikipedia

 

The Piaggio P180 Avanti is an Italian executive transport aircraft with twin turboprop engines mounted in pusher configuration.[6] It seats up to nine passengers in a pressurized cabin, and may be flown by one or two pilots. The design is of three-surface configuration, having both a small forward wing and a conventional tail plane as well as its main wing, with the wing spars passing outside of the passenger cabin area.

 

 

 

[Marty_d]

They are not turboprops . They are pistons. The Piaggio was known as the "pig" Lacking performance . Not a suitable plane for PNG. They used Piper Navahos spl? (known as never goes) Aztecs and things like DHC Otters back then. PNG is a place for suitable aircraft, but some of them weren't at the time. The Porter and Twin Otter are a big advance. The weather and the high mountains are the challenge. The poor old Douglas DC-3 did a terrific job and previously the "corrugated iron" Junkers operated by Qantas. It really is the last frontier in aviation, then and now. The DC-3's operated o a PK chart (developmental) with about 3,000 lbs overload permitted. They also had Bristol freighters with JATO.( Jet Assisted Take Off ). a pretty hairy operation with time expired bottles being generally used. Nev

Given it needs around 900m to land, I'd say they only use that one in certain airports! (It did have "VIP" on the side, so probably not used for carrying the axe-toting locals).

 

I was stunned by the strips they land those Porters on. And NO place for emergency landings - engine failure = death.

 

 

[poteroo]

The Piaggio was known as the "pig" Lacking performance . Not a suitable plane for PNG. They used Piper Navahos spl? (known as never goes) Aztecs and things like DHC Otters back then

Patair managed to operate their 2 pigs, (P166B),for around 5 years out of Port Moresby, and actually got good service out of them on the longer runs and where they had a 'long,slow'climb over the ranges. eg, Moresby to Daru, Moresby to Milne Bay, Moresby to Kirawina. Patair also put 2 of the earliest Navajo's on line in about 1968. They were better liked than the pigs and appeared to be doing a job on the longer runs. The pic below shows both at Tapini - one of the most photographed mountain strips, (though far from the most dangerous or difficult). Wallaby Airlines managed to wreck a Caribou there in 1969. They completely misread the 'false horizon' effect and took the gear off on the lip of the end of the strip. No fatals, but another 1m lower and they'd have been gone! happy days,

 

 

 

 

[facthunter]

Sorry about the confusion. rushing in without noticing the Model of Piaggio. My reference is to the earlier model piston pusher. Thanks for the info Poteroo. Makes my dating recollections more accurate.

 

My first trip SY BN TL PY LA 16 April 1966. TAE DC-4 Nev

 

 

[poteroo]

This is the P166 which was Patairs very 1st of type in 1960. It's 'famous' for going missing in 1961 on a return flight Popondetta to Port Moresby - via the Kokoda Gap. A late in the day trip where you'd need 14,000 via the Gap area, but considerably less, eg 8000, if you take a 20 mins diversion to the SE via Safia . What price your life? It has never been found.

 

 

 

[poteroo]

Nev, bet you have never seen a Cessna in TAA colours - but here it is. When they found that it was 'hard' to get crew for it, and the small companies were just too efficient and competitive, it was sold off. It went to Stol Air Services in Port Moresby in 1965, and was one of my earliest steeds that year. Never looked this good again! happy days,

 

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

I'm always surprised by peoples reactions when they see aircraft operated as they were designed to. Sad thing is those pilots have a fixation for the black stuff and we usually read about them when they try to get back to it during a problem during efato. Need to get out and experience real flying.

 

 

[Marty_d]

I'm always surprised by peoples reactions when they see aircraft operated as they were designed to. Sad thing is those pilots have a fixation for the black stuff and we usually read about them when they try to get back to it during a problem during efato. Need to get out and experience real flying.

That's the whole point - it's not the quality of the strip so much as the lack of any options at all, if you had efato over there. In fact engine failure at any time.

 

 

[facthunter]

You are right. I haven't seen a 185 in TAA colours. SB was the "Sunbird " thing and all the 3's and Bristols (I think ) were SB something. They had at least one PBY Catalina in the 60's One sunk and they gave it to the tech college at Moresby. if my memory serves me right. Nev

 

 

[poteroo]

You are right. I haven't seen a 185 in TAA colours. SB was the "Sunbird " thing and all the 3's and Bristols (I think ) were SB something. They had at least one PBY Catalina in the 60's One sunk and they gave it to the tech college at Moresby. if my memory serves me right. Nev

That's correct. All TAA was VH-SB... They operated Catalinas and land Otters for some time - before 1961 which was when I arrived there as an Ag officer, (didiman in tok pisin). One of my checking captains on Aztecs was John Simmler, and the other the mysterious Cec Randall who disappeared in 1969 or thereabouts - never seen since. John was a very patient and helpful trainer - guess I was lucky to have very experienced trainers in those days. happy days,

 

 

 

 

[facthunter]

A mate of mine in a TAA otter ended up in a swamp with Poof poofs? around all night. Engine Failure wasn't uncommon it the Otter as it was underpowered. Same P&W as the Beaver I think. Nev

 

 

[poteroo]

A mate of mine in a TAA otter ended up in a swamp with Poof poofs? around all night. Engine Failure wasn't uncommon it the Otter as it was underpowered. Same P&W as the Beaver I think. Nev

puk puks in tok pisin.

 

 

[Riley]

puk puks in tok pisin.

Pidgin for.... ????

 

 

[Happyflyer]

A mate of mine in a TAA otter ended up in a swamp with Poof poofs? around all night. Engine Failure wasn't uncommon it the Otter as it was underpowered. Same P&W as the Beaver I think. Nev

A swamp with poof poofs? Gay crocodiles or rugby players?

 

From Wikipedia

 

The Papua New Guinea national rugby union team represent Papua New Guinea in the sport of rugby union. Nicknamed the Pukpuks, (Tok Pisin for 'crocodiles'), they played their first international in 1966, defeating Vanuatu 47-3. Papua New Guinea have not so far qualified for a Rugby World Cup.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Back to the TV show: I didn't notice one windsock at any of the mountain strips. Pretty important item; how the hell do those pilots guage wind?

 

 

[poteroo]

Pidgin for.... ????

puk puk is crocodile in Pidgin (tok pisin). Pidgin (English) is also called neo Melanesian and is an amalgam of Coastal Malay,German,English and other sources.

 

 

[poteroo]

Back to the TV show: I didn't notice one windsock at any of the mountain strips. Pretty important item; how the hell do those pilots guage wind?

Surprisingly perhaps, but the highlands winds are not particularly strong in the Eastern side of New Guinea, and I think that applies to the Indo side as well. In the 'dry' season - some katabatic winds early AM, but the usual winds are all upslope during the daytime. Along the coasts - from May to November is SE season, and Dec to March is the NW season, but less pronounced on the N side of NG. A few particular valleys are notable for winds, and all this is passed on as local knowledge during route and strip endorsing. One strip I remember is Bundi, (EHD),which has 3 windsocks up the ridgeline under your approach path. A bit disconcerting but it does grab your attention. happy days,

 

 

[facthunter]

I never saw it written and that is what it sounded like to me. Crocodiles they are. Normally in the tropics the winds are light except when there is a deep depression (Cyclone ) about. There's usually little surf too. The south side of PNG has a distinct DRY season.otherwise it's pretty humid.. The clouds build up in the afternoons. I remember the Geckos on the roof. Nev

 

 

[ayavner]

This conversation is leaving me misty-eyed, pining for glory days that are long behind that I can never be a part of, having arrived late to the party. I especially love the pictures.