RA-Aus Cert and RPL/PPL

[alexbrown2005]

Hi guys,

 

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this (and I'm sure this has also been done to oblivion). I'm planning on going to CPL in the future, and the reason I'm training via RA-Aus is because I'm a poor university student. I didn't plan on going to CPL when I started, but, hey I love flying too much and I want to do it for a career.

 

Does anyone know if RA-Aus Certificate holders HAVE to go via the new RPL pathway when they convert to PPL, or can they do it the old way by getting their RA-Aus Navigation endorsement, applying for a CASA SPL (& ASIC) then doing the last bit of training in a 172?

 

I just don't see a need to do more training and a flight review, to prove to an ATO what I already know. As for the red tape - if I can go the old way, I can simply apply for an SPL and an ASIC *now* so that I have it at the ready when I do convert to a PPL.

 

Again, sorry if this has been done to death, but I'm still terribly confused and the CASA website ain't helpin'!

 

Cheers.

 

 

[David Isaac]

The RPL has replaced the SPL and the old GFPT.

 

So in theory you can get your RAAus cert, then convert to RPL and continue your training towards CPL in GA.

 

 

[alexbrown2005]

The RPL has replaced the SPL and the old GFPT.So in theory you can get your RAAus cert, then convert to RPL and continue your training towards CPL in GA.

Thanks. So once I get my Pilot Cert., I can convert to an RPL and do Nav training to PPL from there, theoretically?

 

 

[rhysmcc]

That's correct, once you have the pilot cert. you can apply for the RPL and take that into the flight school and start training towards your PPL.

 

 

[ayavner]

I went straight from RAAus + NAV + PAX to PPL. skipped the RPL altogether.

 

 

[Fly_inverted]

There's no requirement to have an RPL before getting a PPL. In fact, CASA website says all you need is an ARN to go all the way up to PPL.

 

Will you be progressing to PPL with the same flying school you've done your RAAus with ? .........if not, you might end up having to redo a written test or something.

 

 

[ayavner]

make sure your BAK test is logged in your logbook - you will need to show that to the testing admin when you take your PPL written. I did have to take the Flight Radio Operator Licence test as well as an English comprehension oral thing with the CFI, but that was it - no repeats from RAAus. Do as much as you can RAAus, its cheaper!

 

 

[alexbrown2005]

No, I'm changing schools for my Nav and my PPL. The schools in Brisbane are FAR out of my budget so I'll be doing a runaround.

 

The exams are all recorded in my logbook.

 

May I ask how you went about it, ayavner?

 

 

[ayavner]

hi Alex - well... long version is recorded here in excruciating detail - http://morerightrudder.wordpress.com

 

short version, i did the RAAus pilot cert, PAX and NAVs with RAAus, with an eye to the required Aeronautical Experience required for the PPL - so having knocked out sufficient hours, solo hours, solo nav hours all i really needed to do was sign up at the GA school and they worked with me to get me what I needed. Do not fool yourself that they are just going to look at your logbook and rubberstamp you. There are things you will not have been taught in RA such as basic instrument flight, as well as the CTA endorsement. If you are keen you can probably expect a couple hours to get familar with the newer/faster/bigger aircraft, then a few navs so THEY know you have the concepts down to the GA standard (in terms of keeping height, time estimates, etc), and basically at this point they are grooming you for the flight test, which is done by a testing officer (not your CFI).

 

Highly suggest you knock out the navs RAAus - close to half the cost in some cases. By the time I got to the PPL training, i had way more than the required hours anyway, and mostly did what it took to get familar with the new plane, extra syllabus stuff, and working on the finesse (which is still a challenge)

 

Feel free to PM me if you'd like more details or have any questions, love to pay it forward as I got so much help on my journey.

 

adam

 

 

[poteroo]

Agree with last post. But, when doing navs in RAAus - ensure that you follow the routes,competencies and requirements that will allow the GA school to agree to 'recognise' your navs as being of equivalent standard to those you'd do after RPL. In other words, the bare 10 hrs as per RAAus won't cut it. Our PC's do at least 15-16hrs, or at least up to Nav 6 or 7 in PPL. It's also good for 'recognition' if you go to some busier CTAF's, skirt around CTA,and also if you fly some (DR) legs over 'featureless' country. happy days,

 

 

[alexbrown2005]

Guys (or girls), that's absolutely amazing! So basically if I tell the flight school I'm going to for my Navs that I want to fly at least 15 hours, with 5 solo, and with experience in busy airspace, I should be RELATIVELY prepared (apart from the instrument time, etc)? I fly in Class D CTA at Archerfield anyway, so I'm used to SOME form of controlled airspace.

 

See, in my mind, more hours is bad, because Chief Pilots down the track will denounce you for having taken longer (at least, that's what a CP over on PPRuNE tells me).

 

 

[Happyflyer]

Plenty of Chief Pilots will tell you that RAAus time is wasted, some value tailwheel some don't. Some value a white shirt with w**ker bars over ability. I would suggest you learn your basic flying in RAAus, get your RPL, do your Navs in aircraft that have GA navaids such as VOR, ADF Garmin 1000 or 430 and do time in CTA. In then end it's between you and your wallet. If you are going on to CPL, doing your RAAus at Archerfield can't hurt. If you can do your training at an RAAus/GA school you will be doing it with the same instructors and CFI and to the same standard usually, that may save you some dollars. Listen to us all and just take what makes sense to you.

 

 

[alexbrown2005]

Thanks all, this has really helped :) As for the Chief Pilots down the track - I'll have the exact same CPL + MECIR as the other applicants. I just hope they see it that way too.

 

 

[ayavner]

Guys (or girls), that's absolutely amazing! So basically if I tell the flight school I'm going to for my Navs that I want to fly at least 15 hours, with 5 solo, and with experience in busy airspace, I should be RELATIVELY prepared (apart from the instrument time, etc)? I fly in Class D CTA at Archerfield anyway, so I'm used to SOME form of controlled airspace.See, in my mind, more hours is bad, because Chief Pilots down the track will denounce you for having taken longer (at least, that's what a CP over on PPRuNE tells me).

Honestly, I expect by the time you are in the hundreds of hours range or more when you are looking for a job, whether you did it in 40 or 45 or ever 60 will make no difference that I can see.

 

Also regarding the Navs - not only is there an hours requirement, there is also the requirement of being 150 nm or longer, and with a landing at 2 aerodromes that are not the one you departed from, etc - and yes this can all be done under RAAus. You can then spend the time in a GA aircraft learning the Navaids as happyflyer suggests, rather than the entire lot of hours at the more expensive rate.

 

CAR 5.84 Private pilot (aeroplane) licence: aeronautical experience required

 

(1)For the purposes of paragraph 5.77(1)(f), a person’s aeronautical experience must consist of at least 40 hours of flight time as a pilot, being flight time that includes:

 

(a) at least 5 hours of general flight time as pilot in command; and

 

(b) at least 5 hours of cross‑country flight time as pilot in command; and

 

© at least 2 hours of instrument flight time.

 

(2)The 40 hours must be recognised flight time that was flown in a registered aeroplane, recognised aeroplane, helicopter, gyroplane, glider, power‑assisted sailplane or group A ultralight.

 

(3)For the purposes of paragraph (1)(b), the flight time must include 1 flight of at least 150 miles, that includes at least 1 full stop landing at, and at least 1 take‑off from, each of 2 or more aerodromes:

 

(a) that are not the aerodrome from which the flight commenced; and

 

(b) that are not within the student pilot area limit of the aerodrome from which the flight commenced.

 

(4)For the purposes of subregulation (3), a landing is a full stop landing if, after landing, the aeroplane’s speed is reduced to taxi speed before take‑off begins.

 

 

[alexbrown2005]

I'd expect flight schools to abide by CAR 5.84 (3), but nevertheless thank you for prompting me; I'll definitely bring it up when I drive up to have a chat to the CFI next Friday (I hate using the phone, I'd much rather talk face-to-face about these sorts of things).

 

And thank you for swatting my concerns, Adam. I can only hope you're right - I mean, CP's ARE human too and all humans do things a little differently.

 

 

[GAFA]

Air Queensland at Redcliffe is a RAAus/GA school. They use a 2013 Tecnam P2008 for the RAAus training with GA training is done in PA38s, C172s and a C182.

 

Flying with them all Redcliffe Aeroclub is far cheaper than any school at Archerfield.

 

Try to avoid talking to junior instructors when asking about licence requirements /conversions, as most of them are employed casually and are paid by the flight hour. So the majority will say you need to do more hours than the regulations require. (note I'm a former Instructor).

 

 

[alexbrown2005]

Ah, but are they cheaper than $215/hour at Gympie? :p I'm barely affording to fly as it is! But I might keep them in mind when going for the post-RA Nav part of my training.

 

At the moment I've got my eye on a school down at YBLT (yeah, it's a 2000 kilometre drive!) that charges the same rates for a C172 that I'm paying right now for a C162 ($299/hour).

 

 

[ayavner]

I'd expect flight schools to abide by CAR 5.84 (3), but nevertheless thank you for prompting me; I'll definitely bring it up when I drive up to have a chat to the CFI next Friday (I hate using the phone, I'd much rather talk face-to-face about these sorts of things).And thank you for swatting my concerns, Adam. I can only hope you're right - I mean, CP's ARE human too and all humans do things a little differently.

cool - best of luck! Please don't take my comments as being dismissive of your concerns either... just passing on observations - have seen a few people rock up only to be told they needed to do another nav cuz this or that one didn't meet specs. It almost happened to me. You'd think, sure... but that goes back to the original observation about making sure your RAAus school will certify you to this standard. You're in great company here, and a belated Welcome to the forum!

 

 

[alexbrown2005]

Mate, I've told my current school of my goals and I'm making sure they train me to that standard. I'll tell the same thing to all the other schools I head to :)

 

Thanks for the welcome. And you're right - I am in great company here! The advice I've been given is amazing.

 

 

[Camel]

Why not look at your GA training in a C152 rather than a C172 , would be cheaper, just looked at one school was $285 dual and I know he's not the cheapest.

 

 

[GAFA]

P2008: $275 dual

 

Pa38: $295 Dual

 

C172: $348

 

If you want to move across to GA earlier you can do the NAVs in the PA38. When I did my PPL back in the early 90's I did most of my NAVs in the PA38 and C152. When I was instructing I would recommend to my students to do the same to save them money.

 

 

[alexbrown2005]

Camel, what school is that? I don't care where it is and, hey, I'd be up for a long drive after the university semester finishes!

 

I'd FLY, but even RA-Aus aircraft would be too costly to hire over a long period of time. Well, in one hit, anyway.

 

 

[alexbrown2005]

GAFA - I don't believe it. I could've flown GA all along! That's what I'm paying now! Oh well. You live, you learn.

 

The PA38 isn't a bad little aircraft, actually. I did a 30 minute flight out of YAMB during my time in the Air Force Cadets. I mean, I couldn't really judge much after 30 minutes, but nevertheless.

 

 

[GAFA]

If you stay away from schools located at class D airports you will save money straight away as the cost of running a school at these airports is higher.

 

 

[alexbrown2005]

That's a fair call, GAFA, but, looking at it now, the experience of learning to fly in Class D airspace should make it a little easier when learning CTA on the PPL side of things.