Is the LAME going extinct?

[old man emu]

I heard from a reliable source recently that for the whole of Australia there are only 300 people apprenticed to become LAMEs. In viable population terms, that number is too small to replace those LAMEs who leave the industry through retirement, death or other reasons. This is a situation which leads to extinction.

 

What does it mean to the Private pilot, both GA and Recreational? It means that the wealth of experience needed to maintain the types of aircraft we fly recreationally will be lost forever. Sure, there is much media into which this information has been loaded, but you can never store the "Oh, I came across that problem years ago and this is how I fixed it" type of personal experience.

 

Yes, RAA rules allow people to service their own airplanes, but what about those people who own airplanes, and who are happy to be airplane owners/pilots but not mechanics? Who is going to keep their airplanes flying?

 

In the next few years, don't expect to be able to phone up a LAME/L2 to book your airplane in for service "next week". CASA wants all airplanes fifteen years and older to have all their control cables replaced in the next two or three years. The LAMEs are going to be working overtime just to do the work for their commercial operator clients.

 

Once again we see our First World society being destroyed by lack of foresight in the provision of education and training. Our young people can complete Level Umpteen of a computer shoot 'em up, but have never been exposed to the fixit side of the equipment that makes our First World society what it is.

 

We need to to launch a protest campaign to get our politicians to stop killing off our secondary industry and start educating a new generation of trades people!

 

Old Man Emu

 

 

[Ultralights]

as far as im concerned, the General Aviation industry in Australia is already dead. it shrunk beyond the point of self sustainability a while ago..

 

even now, No ATPL licences can be issued in Australia, as all applicants now need a Multricrew rating to go with it, an no one is Australia is approved to do the training... so, not only have we no General Aviation anymore, it wont be long before the last crop of ATPL's in Oz move on, and we have nothing to replace them.. Australians as professional pilots will be extinct. in the very near future, we will be like Europe when it comes to General aviation, a recreational hobby for the rich..

 

a massive shame, considering our country is almost perfectly custom made to foster aviation.. with our huge distances, great weather, and lack of mountains.. we should be world leaders in aviation. but sadly, aviation doesnt win elections, and we have not had a proper leader in our politics for quite a few decades now.

 

 

[Chocolate]

Won't need many lames as no aircraft to be serviced. Ga has been killed off as Small aviation business startup is cost prohibitive due massive red tape legislation and regs, with casa oversight costs at cost recovery the final nail in the coffin. Damn shame.

 

 

[dazza 38]

It didn't help due to politics that military technicians like myself had to redo exams to become LAME's. Most of us of course said they can stick that up their ar$e and we moved onto different careers.

 

Pretty silly how we could have many many years swinging spanners on fast jets and multi engined transport aircraft. But we were not allowed to work on a single engine Cessna lol.

 

This all came about from the unions worried about the military guys taking the jobs away from civilians LAME/AME and apprentices . Well they made their bed and now they can lie in it.

 

 

[skeptic36]

. Well they made their bed and now they can lie in it.

Only problem with that, is, we will all be lying in that same bed ( it's gonna get smelly in there)

 

 

[facthunter]

Lame's in Australia are only there because they are hooked on it and know no better. Haven't met one who is happy with the system. It's too unpredictable and ad hoc. They don't all whinge outrightall the time, but when they have time to talk the're not happy Alice. Nev

 

 

[dazza 38]

It would probably be a good career move for a young bloke or girl out of school. But you would have to love putting up with government red tape.

 

 

[frank marriott]

Talk to the average GA LAME (the worker not owner) and ask about hourly rate. I don't know about airline maintenance workers. Plus the CASA interference/rule changes etc.

 

 

[dazza 38]

I know a few very experienced and competent L2 guys who are tossing up whether to keep working as L2's or not. Their insurance etc is getting to the point where they would rather just work on their own aircraft.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

CASA has done all it can to hinder the success of the average LAME. Consistently good experienced LAMEs leave the system never to return.....and they are not all old blokes either ...lately some of the younger crew have left also. CASA has no policy in place to encourage apprentices or the retention of LAME already in the system. Of the original 900 L2s in RAA only around 300 have bothered to renew as currently required.

 

 

[440032]

I know of a workshop that safely maintained a fleet of RPT twins for near 30 years. Near 100% on time despatch record. Until CASA changed the regs, and required them to appoint (employ) three or four new useless managers, not to do the spanner work, but to be managers. 3 or 4 more full time salaries, with no increase in revenue or safety? Without those people, no more RPT maintenance allowed, so they lost most of their business overnight. Now, those same RPT twins cannot be maintained on their own airfield. Maybe soon, the RPT operator will close because they can't properly maintain the fleet like they have, safely, for the past 30 years. It's disgusting.

 

Look at FAA website - there are colleges in every big town in USA that you can go to, qualify for your A&P ticket, then start working. I think its that simple. Where are all the future LAME's going to come from? NOWHERE. Can't outsource that to overseas! A young person needs an apprenticeship here, but nobody really is hiring, they are all winding down to retirement, not growing their business. And who is to blame? Starts with C.

 

 

[Ultralights]

it appears to me the only source of aviation maintainers left in Oz, is the Millitary.. but again, their skills in everything from C17's PC9's Blackhawks, F18's etc, cant transfer over to civilian qualifications, without a years worth of paperwork....

 

they can repair a composite flight control on a F18. but cant do a fibreglass repair to a cessna 150 cowling...

 

 

[facthunter]

Does anyone do a fibreglass repair to a C-150 cowling? Apart from that, recognition of prior training is pretty uniform in the modern world. Military training is well regarded but it would be a long time since they built in WOOD.. I doubt anyone is across the lot.. Who does Stitts? ( polyester fabric). I'm no good at it. I can't do the stitching to save my life. Nev

 

 

[dazza 38]

Does anyone do a fibreglass repair to a C-150 cowling? Apart from that, recognition of prior training is pretty uniform in the modern world. Military training is well regarded but it would be a long time since they built in WOOD.. I doubt anyone is across the lot.. Who does Stitts? ( polyester fabric). I'm no good at it. I can't do the stitching to save my life. Nev

Fabric repairs in the RAAF pretty much stopped when the Dakota DC3 left ARDU. Composite repairs happen a lot. We they were when I was in.

 

 

[Guest john]

Everything on this planet has an ending & whether you like it or not we are witnessing the sad ending of GA & RAA as its days are numbered. As sad as the current situation is we still have the memories we can all hold onto because we have seen & lived in the good times. The current younger generation will say we are talking a hole lot of bullshxt , & thats their opinion which they are entitled to, but is only good to them today, but give them a few more years & it is predicted that they will be saying those old aviation buggers were right after all.

 

 

[facthunter]

It will only happen if we allow it. Funny about 10 years ago I thought we were leading the world here in Australia. Think about that. It's up to us to reclaim it..Nev

 

 

[Geoff13]

If you believe it is gone then it will go, but if enough good people believe it can be saved, then it can.

 

 

[pylon500]

It will only happen if we allow it. Funny about 10 years ago I thought we were leading the world here in Australia. Think about that. It's up to us to reclaim it..Nev

Virtually from the outset, Australia led the world with ultralights, mainly because we evolved faster than CASA could write rules to stop us.

Nev's right, ten years ago, we still led the world.

 

Our ultralights could be two seat, travel in excess of 100kts, be designed and built by amateurs, have retractable undercarriage and variable pitch props.

 

Then CASA listened to a small vocal section of our (?) group, and adopted the American LSA system, at which point I think we went backwards about twenty years.....

 

As for the survival of Australian GA and the aero-maintainance arena, this morning I read the proposed CASA cost recovery draft and, as mentioned far above by chocolate, I think the last nail is sitting on the coffin just waiting for the hammer.

 

Just think, soon all the RPT's you fly on in Australia, will be worked on overseas, and flown by pilots with English as a second language.....

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Everything on this planet has an ending & whether you like it or not we are witnessing the sad ending of GA & RAA as its days are numbered. As sad as the current situation is we still have the memories we can all hold onto because we have seen & lived in the good times. The current younger generation will say we are talking a hole lot of bullshxt , & thats their opinion which they are entitled to, but is only good to them today, but give them a few more years & it is predicted that they will be saying those old aviation buggers were right after all.

John, your attitude is simply not supported by the figurers ...especially with the RAA. Private GA is in trouble because of increased maintenance and fuel cost, CASA over- regulation, and a general lack of LAMES in this country. When you throw in mandated requirements like the Cessna SIDs..it's just another nail in the coffin. RAA is in a growth mode, with an increase in new memberships, and the average age of pilots has dropped in recent years which is moving in the right direction. With good management the deficits of past years should soon be reversed. We have many of the ex-GA pilots now flying RAA and buying ULs or LSA aircraft, and this will continue into the future. People have been saying now for thirty years that we will disappear, and we just continue to prove them wrong !......

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Gee doesn't it want to make you take a few of these idiots out to the countryside and give them 15 minutes head start?

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Fabric repairs in the RAAF pretty much stopped when the Dakota DC3 left ARDU. Composite repairs happen a lot. We they were when I was in.

Believe it or not I was trained initially to do fabric repairs on the RAAFs DC-3s. In fact the very first job I ever did on an actual aircraft was to recover an elevator on a DC-3. Irish linen or Grade A cotton as it was called then was used with red Oxide tautening dope with silver dope over that.

I went on to do many Sport aircraft recovers using the stitts systems which is pretty simple when you look at the basics. The only stitching you need to do is the rib stitching which can often take as long to do as the rest put together !.....

 

 

[planedriver]

It didn't help due to politics that military technicians like myself had to redo exams to become LAME's. Most of us of course said they can stick that up their ar$e and we moved onto different careers.Pretty silly how we could have many many years swinging spanners on fast jets and multi engined transport aircraft. But we were not allowed to work on a single engine Cessna lol.

This all came about from the unions worried about the military guys taking the jobs away from civilians LAME/AME and apprentices . Well they made their bed and now they can lie in it.

 

So think long and hard before deciding which way you vote in the next elections.

 

Unions have no doubt done a lot of good in the past, but their unsustainable greed has caused a lot of problems also, killing the goose that laid the golden egg who put food on their family's table.

 

Too many pollie's from both sides of the fence are like mushrooms, short storks and thrive on bullsh*t.

 

Going back half a century or more, I could never understand how a country like Australia produced so much wool, shipped it to the mills in the Midlands of UK and once processed and turned into blankets, etc; then sent them back to where they originated from at a much higher price.

 

What sort of Sh*t for brains leader can lack vision to think like that?, but sadly half a century later, it appears that mentality hasn't changed.

 

"God help our grandkids"

 

In the next election, i'll vote for whoever has the balls to do what it right for this waning but great country I love, if it is possible to find anyone who fills that critera.

 

I've only lived here for about 40yrs and will always give it my all, in that time I've seen so much I wish I could change back to the way things were before I arrived, but with improvements for all who live here with blinkers over their eyes.

 

Back in the early 70's I was involved with a lot of the British Standards for various things. Australia seemed to take them on board and try to set even higher standards, not that there's too much wrong with that, but the aims have to be realistic, believable and above all achievable, or you either stagnate or go backwards.

 

That's my spit for tonight, but I think it contains an element of truth:taz:

 

You may have different views, and are entitled to them.

 

 

[pylon500]

Going back half a century or more, I could never understand how a country like Australia produced so much wool, shipped it to the mills in the Midlands of UK and once processed and turned into blankets, etc; then sent them back to where they originated from at a much higher price.

Still happens today, just look at our steel industry.

Not sure about Aluminium, but I know we don't produce any aircraft grade alloy here, but we mine lots of bauxite.

 

 

[planedriver]

My son used to be a scrappie for a while. All his non-ferrous, computer boards etc: were bought by Chinese people who'd ship it by the container load half way around the world, recycle it, and make money.

 

Maybe we are vision impaired.

 

 

[jeffd]

so whats the answer for the l2 side of things.hit casa up with questions regarding it?