High Wing V Low Wing

[Guest browng]

By the way, I can't think of anything seriously aerobatic with high wings. Is there anything?

Not that I know of, primarily because they have to perform similarly upright or inverted, and in a similar vein I cant think of anything seriously STOL with a low wing.

 

High wings are slightly more efficient, as the area on top of the fuselage between the wings effectively adds to the wing area (most lift is produced by the top of the airfoil, not the bottom). Also low wings normally require more dihedral for stability, and the angle between the wing root and fuselage consequently produces more induced drag,( the reason why we need wing root fairings). One alternative is a 'cranked' low wing like my Jodel, where there is no dihedral at all for the inboard two thirds of the wing, but the outer third is angled upward giving as much stability as a high wing, but without the induced drag of a low wing.

 

 

[ahlocks]

I've got a low wing and when I get fast enough along the ground and then pull back on the stick, the view changes to something spectacular. Coincidentally, the same thing happened with the high wing that I trained on......

 

I.E. Does it really matter?!

 

 

[Mick]

What I cant seem to get past is when there is a large flyin like Narromine, where people fly for a number of hours to get there. There are 2 types of arriving pilots. Those that flew high wing, and those that flew low wing. The low wing pilots can be identified by the 3rd degree burns to the face and nose and the dehydration both of which look as though hospitalisation is a possibility.

On the other hand the high wing pilots are indistinguishable from the locals gawping at the low wing arriving pilots.

Low wing & Bubble canopy = Fried pilots - WRONG :;)1:

 

One of the biggest bubble canopies on a low wing belongs to the Evektor Sportstar. The Sportstar canopy is 99% UV proof. I have done a 5 hour flight in the Sportstar from Hervey Bay to Central Western NSW at Xmas in 40 degree heat under clear blue skies and not suffered from sunburn at all. ;);)

 

The Sportstar also has fantastic ventilation airflow which once moving keeps it cool.

 

The day I first flew in the Sportstar, I also flew 2 high wing A/C. It was a hot day but the Sportstar was cooler than both the CT2K and the Allegro.

 

You can't really generalise with this or alot of other factors about aircraft. It is a matter of personal preference and doing your homework on individual machines.

 

 

[Guest browng]

If you've ever flown a Maule you would know that 5 knots of crosswind is significant.......,The max crosswind of a Beagle Pup on the other hand is something like 25 knots

When comparing Xwind tolerance I don't think it is fair to compare a tailwheel type with a tricycle, and that is a more significant difference between the two types you mention than the wing form. I can easily land my J3 Cub in a Xwind theoretically way beyond it's tolerance, I have landed across the runway more than once, but occasionally I then can't taxy in it without getting dizzy! I'm curious why you mention the Beagle Pup? I used to own a B121 (G-AZCT) when I lived overseas, and didn't know there were any in Oz, are there?

 

 

[Mazda]

In the case of the Maule I don't think it has much to do with the tailwheel, it is due to the lack of aileron. I wouldn't recommend landing a Maule beyond the book xwind figures by the way. A Pitts isn't really worried by crosswind on approach (during taxi it sure is though).

 

To the best of my knowledge there are 3 Beagle Pups in the country. I wish there were more!

 

 

[Guest browng]

To the best of my knowledge there are 3 Beagle Pups in the country. I wish there were more!

Do you know what models they are and where they are based? I found the B121 to be a beautiful aircraft for aerobatic training, but at 100HP a little underpowered. I have never flown the 150HP version, but I have flown the 200HP Bulldog, which while having more than enough power was a lot heavier, and unfortunately had lost the incredibly precise 'fingertip' handling of the B121. I'll take your word on the Maul, its not among the types I have flown, but I do believe that generally tricycle types have higher crosswind tolerance than tailwheel types, regardless of wing form. Anybody who has flown both a Piper Pacer and a Piper TriPacer, would definitely know what I mean.

 

A Pitts isn't really worried by crosswind on approach (during taxi it sure is though).

A Pitts is not worried by a xwind because it has a wing loading of over 11lb/sq ft, and is descending like a 90mph brick, but it's official xwind tolerance is only 20mph (17knots). Try landing an S1 Pitts with ANY quartering tailwind component though, and you will get a very nasty surprise. My second Pitts S1 (G-BRZL), had a Haigh locking tail-wheel which made taxying a doddle even in strong winds, it automatically locked straight ahead, and you unlocked it for maneuvering by pulling up on a cable in the cockpit.

 

EDIT - As a general comment, any aircraft can safely exceed its max demonstrated crosswind limit simply by approaching faster. The 'Max Demonstrated' limit is calculated at the standard approach speed in the POH, a higher approach speed will increase the xwind handling limit, but at the expense of the landing roll. This is why some people say a 'wheeler' is better in a xwind than a 3-pointer, but in reality it is not the attitude, but the (usually) higher approach speed of the wheeler that makes this seem so.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Temora gliding club used a Beagle some time back may still have it

 

 

[Guest browng]

Temora gliding club used a Beagle some time back may still have it

Was that definitely a Beagle PUP, and not an Airedale or Terrier?

 

i.e. one of these;

 

 

 

[Mazda]

The Pups I know about in Oz are 150s. I looked at buying one of them. It had low time but needed too much work unfortunately. Lovely to fly though, with that crisp light feel lacking in so many types. That one was at Williamtown but I don't know where it was sold. There was another one owned by an English guy and pretty much abandoned in a hangar in Parkes or somewhere similar. I can't remember the other one - Victoria maybe? There was one that was operated from Bankstown and crashed in a corn field. Apparently it was a real mess, but it may have been rebuilt. If you want one maybe search the CASA register and contact the owners (but please, please, please you let me have a fly?!!)

 

The Maule doesn't have a max demonstrated xwind, it has a published crosswind limit which is very low. I know of incidents where experienced pilots have tested that limit and come to grief.

 

I've flown the S2A (steerable tailwheel) and S1 (Haigh) and I wouldn't even think about landing with a tailwind!!

 

 

[Guest brentc]

There's one of those at Tooradin, has only been there for a few months. Almost came to grief recently when it ran out of juice. Apparently the fuel pickups are quite high in the tank and if you're not familiar with the operation of the aircraft you may come unstuck.

 

 

[Mazda]

It wouldn't surprise me as the standard tanks are quite small.

 

 

[vk3auu]

I don't have a problem in the turns, I just look out through the top of the cockpit. The steeper the turn, the better the view.

 

I'm not sure what the limiting crosswind is, something above 20 knots, provided it is coming from the left, otherwise, land across the strip.

 

David

 

Zenair CH701

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

No sorry not the same as the photo the name Airedale sounds more like it, high wing trike. had a thumping great muffler on it.

 

 

[Guest browng]

There's one of those at Tooradin, has only been there for a few months. Almost came to grief recently when it ran out of juice. Apparently the fuel pickups are quite high in the tank and if you're not familiar with the operation of the aircraft you may come unstuck.

Sounds like somebody may not have read the manual, there is nothing unusual about the fuel pickups. The B121 has two 12 Imp gal wing tanks with a Left-Both-Right selector, if both tanks are selected, and one tank is allowed to run completely dry, air will be drawn into the fuel system. If a sufficient head of fuel remains in the opposite tank, the engine will run intermittently, but will eventually stop well before the remaining fuel is exhausted, unless that tank alone is selected, then all the remaining fuel is usable. It's caused a few unnecessary incidents in the UK, but as is often the case, its only a matter of RTFM....