Wind Turbine Hazard to Aviation

[Head in the clouds]

Though we don't have many wind-farms in Oz I hadn't considered that they might be a hazard other than crashing into one.

 

This is a bit of an eye-opener for anyone that does have one in their region and could be flying downwind of it one day.

 

The link above provides an interesting read about the hazards and the picture below gives the general idea.

 

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Trees are also a wake hazard.

 

 

[facthunter]

What you are seeing there is fog forming due to the already moist air being agitated by the generator blades. With the air at dew point or slightly below. mixing or smoke/dust particles, (condensation nucleii ) can cause fog to form. Nev

 

 

[robinsm]

Though we don't have many wind-farms in Oz I hadn't considered that they might be a hazard other than crashing into one.This is a bit of an eye-opener for anyone that does have one in their region and could be flying downwind of it one day.

 

The link above provides an interesting read about the hazards and the picture below gives the general idea.

 

[ATTACH=full]34370[/ATTACH]

You may not have many windfarms but here on the southern Tablelands we have a number totalling over 300 windmills in a small area. Great to fly around.

 

 

[jetjr]

Why would they line the installations up like that?

 

Thought they would be looking for smooth undisturbed air?

 

Could just be wind direction that day I guess

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Could just be wind direction that day I guess

Yes, the median is about 30 degrees to that day's direction, you can see it if you look right to left'ish - the greatest spacing between the turbines..

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Though we don't have many wind-farms in Oz

What? Oz has vast areas of them - way more of them than most western countries.

 

Sometimes they produce electricity but irregularly and not in any consistent manner and generally require long transmission lengths to areas of power demand. SA has the greatest number, you can see the effect on electricity prices here (great, no?). More info here. Wind turbines do consistently kill countless thousands of birds each year. And they mess with local weather patterns reducing localized rainfall immediately downstream (typically in the next farm). But hey for some unknown reason Greenies love them.

 

 

[JG3]

This is a bit of an eye-opener[/url] for anyone that does have one in their region and could be flying downwind of it one day.

I deliberately flown downwind of turbines in the USA, and it was only a few bumps of turbulence crossing the wake.

 

JG

[Happyflyer]

Wow, wind turbines do draw them out of the woodwork. I regularly fly near wind farms. Sometimes down wind at wind turbine height. I have never felt more than the normal amount of mechanical turbulence that would be expected when downwind of any structure. I have walked under them and have not seen one dead bird. A quick search of credible web sites shows that for every bird that is killed by a wind turbine, 5000 birds are killed by flying into windows and other man made structures. I have not heard of one farmer who is making money from them catching the mysterious wind turbine sickness. I haven't seen the grass dying on the downwind side of wind turbines from lack of rain either. I would suggest 99 percent of rain falls from cloud higher than the wind farms. How they magically stop it raining down wind would be a mystery to me. More likely the down wind farmer is jealous of the upwind farmer who is getting paid to have the wind farm and will say anything to get "compensation".

 

 

[Marty_d]

They generally come out of the woodwork if anything threatens their holy trinity - oil, coal, and god.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

God bless GNu

 

 

[skeptic36]

Any of you want to do the maths on the installation and maintenance costs compared to what they produce.

 

They wouldn't exist without subsidies.

 

If you want clean, economically viable energy, hydro is it.

 

 

[Geoff13]

Wow, wind turbines do draw them out of the woodwork. I regularly fly near wind farms. Sometimes down wind at wind turbine height. I have never felt more than the normal amount of mechanical turbulence that would be expected when downwind of any structure. I have walked under them and have not seen one dead bird. A quick search of credible web sites shows that for every bird that is killed by a wind turbine, 5000 birds are killed by flying into windows and other man made structures. I have not heard of one farmer who is making money from them catching the mysterious wind turbine sickness. I haven't seen the grass dying on the downwind side of wind turbines from lack of rain either. I would suggest 99 percent of rain falls from cloud higher than the wind farms. How they magically stop it raining down wind would be a mystery to me. More likely the down wind farmer is jealous of the upwind farmer who is getting paid to have the wind farm and will say anything to get "compensation".

So I assume from that , Wind Turbines are over 500 feet AGL.

 

 

[coljones]

Any of you want to do the maths on the installation and maintenance costs compared to what they produce.They wouldn't exist without subsidies.

If you want clean, economically viable energy, hydro is it.

No Hydro in SA. NSW, Vic and Qld have pinched all the water

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Wind turbines do consistently kill countless thousands of birds each year.

I'm not going to argue for or against WTs but I could never get my head around that one. Birds can see bugs at 500 mtrs, have dramatic fights with other birds demanding amazing agility and reflexes mid air, yet can't avoid a huge, brightly coloured, relatively slow moving wind turbine blade?

 

Nah, not even closed to convinced. There are some decent arguments against WTs, but people look silly using that one.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

I saw somewhere, perhaps on another thread, that there have been only three collisions with wind generators worldwide but more than a dozen crashes due to loss of control or structural failure trying to avoid them in poor vis.

 

 

[Kununurra]

Unless they are constructed on or located near airports, wind farms are unlikely to impact on the safety of commercial and domestic air transport . In relation to

 

the impact of wind farms on aviation operations, wind developers are required to liaise with the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) and the RAAF Aeronautical Information Service, which maintains a database of structures on behalf of CASA. Each wind farm is assessed by a CASA Flying Operations Inspector for its potential aviation risk and any obstruction lighting requirements.

 

 

[facthunter]

Any high structures are usually fitted with lights. Not so easy with rotating blades. Nev

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

I haven't seen the grass dying on the downwind side of wind turbines from lack of rain either. I would suggest 99 percent of rain falls from cloud higher than the wind farms. How they magically stop it raining down wind would be a mystery to me. More likely the down wind farmer is jealous of the upwind farmer who is getting paid to have the wind farm and will say anything to get "compensation".

If you are interested then do some research and get educated. The rainfall decrease is due to thermal mixing (the turbulence issue - same as the thread topic) of the lower layers and only relates to tall turbines, the result is a small but measurable localised decrease. As always the info is out there but sometimes it is more fun to remain mystified so you can continue to chuckle at others.

 

 

[dutchroll]

What? Oz has vast areas of them - way more of them than most western countries.Sometimes they produce electricity but irregularly and not in any consistent manner and generally require long transmission lengths to areas of power demand. SA has the greatest number, you can see the effect on electricity prices here (great, no?). More info here. Wind turbines do consistently kill countless thousands of birds each year. And they mess with local weather patterns reducing localized rainfall immediately downstream (typically in the next farm). But hey for some unknown reason Greenies love them.

Woah nellie!

Look at the peak electricity price in March 2008. You reckon that was due to wind farms do you? Well please don't read this link:

 

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/current/month/sa/archive/200803.adelaide.shtml

 

Oh look - there's another peak in electricity price in early 2009 in South Australia. Go figure! Please don't read this link:

 

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/[email protected]/Lookup/1301.0Chapter1042009–10

 

Hang on - there's another huge peak in SA electricity prices in early 2010! Why could that be I wonder? Those damn wind turbines again?

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-01-06/another-heatwave-for-sa/1200262

 

If you are going to insist on falsely correlating two things, you should hope that no-one can be bothered looking into it!

 

Yes wind turbines kill "thousands of birds a year".

 

In Britain, domestic cats kill an estimated 50 million birds a year. In the USA, several hundred million birds a year. In Canada, between 100 million and 350 million birds per year.

 

Several hundred million birds per year are killed flying into house windows.

 

Around 60 million are killed by cars.

 

Bird deaths due to wind turbines are actually being addressed by wind farm planners, for example by better geographical location, but sheesh Gnarly Gnu, you ought to try adding some robust reasoning into your anti wind-farm sentiments! And yes, I am chuckling at your extremely poor quality arguments and inability to put the argument in perspective.

 

 

[johnm]

if you lived downwind from a wind farm (and this could be a certain separation distance) (experienced this at a camping ground) ................ found them to be annoying at best - they seem to create a 'pulse' or a 'resonance' in the air - banging the palm of your hand on each side of your head does not alleviate the problem

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Look at the peak electricity price in March 2008. You reckon that was due to wind farms do you?

Perhaps I didn't make that point clear; SA with the highest proportion of wind turbines in the country also has the highest electricity prices, in fact on the edge of being the highest in the world. Not the consumer and not the environment.... exactly who is benefiting here? Why aren't they viable without taxpayer subsidies?

 

Anyway, back on topic yes watch the downwind turbulence, probably don't aim at getting that close if you have the option.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

If you are interested then do some research and get educated. The rainfall decrease is due to thermal mixing (the turbulence issue - same as the thread topic) of the lower layers and only relates to tall turbines, the result is a small but measurable localised decrease. As always the info is out there but sometimes it is more fun to remain mystified so you can continue to chuckle at others.

Where can I find the "research" you are quoting?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Perhaps I didn't make that point clear; SA with the highest proportion of wind turbines in the country also has the highest electricity prices, in fact on the edge of being the highest in the world. Not the consumer and not the environment.... exactly who is benefiting here?

SA has privatised its power network, that's how capitalism works: you find something people can't live without and you gouge them as hard as you can.

 

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/etsa-sale-cost-south-australia-2b-as-prices-soar-says-damning-report-on-privatisation/story-fnl3k6uz-1226833529725

 

 

[facthunter]

Removing trees is one of the biggest climate modifiers. Surface temperature goes up.

 

With electricity, distribution costs are a major factor. I doubt you could just make an association with the predominance of wind farms, and leave it at that. I do know that some remote communities in SA have had their electricity rates subsidised by BOTH parties. Nev