Do landing fees lead to safety being compromised

[ozbear]

Do landing fees lead to less transmissions or no transmissions in CTAFs therefore a safety issue ?

 

 

[Doug Evans]

yes that dose happen more and more so i would say yes it dose !

 

 

[facthunter]

And people give other person's call signs. The cost of collecting some of them would excede the money received. Nev

 

 

[planet47]

Some people don't give radio calls because they think they can avoid the landing fee and then there are those who don't fly as much as they used to because it already costs enough and its more than it used to be.

 

 

[rhysmcc]

I don't think landing fees are the cause, but the behaviour of some pilots in trying to avoid being charged.

 

It's not a matter of landing fees not being safe, but poor airmanship.

 

 

[ozbear]

yes that dose happen more and more so i would say yes it dose !

I agree Doug I won't go into specifics but have noticed VH aircraft not in my area giving no calls at all whilst RA aircraft always making calls due to restricted Database access I assume

 

 

[KRviator]

When it can cost $600 for an hour of circuits at Warnervale, yes it does. You simply encourage flyers to other airstrips like Somersby where an EFATO can't produce a good outcome. The see and avoid principle is all ell and good, but the mix of traffic at some airports naturally increases the risk, and if people aren't communicating, or using false callsigns and then not responding when called, that risk is compounded.

 

 

[poteroo]

Do landing fees lead to less transmissions or no transmissions in CTAFs therefore a safety issue ?

I'd say that very, very few pilots are trying to avoid landing fees via sneaky and unsafe means. Of the few I've had occasion to speak with following a 'no radio call' arrival - it's been that they were on the wrong frequency, had a faulty mic, or simply were making too few radio calls. Most pilots make far too many 'optional' calls and clutter the frequency. happy days,

 

 

[Jaba-who]

I'd say that very, very few pilots are trying to avoid landing fees via sneaky and unsafe means. Of the few I've had occasion to speak with following a 'no radio call' arrival - it's been that they were on the wrong frequency, had a faulty mic, or simply were making too few radio calls. Most pilots make far too many 'optional' calls and clutter the frequency. happy days,

You must be in the only part of Oz where that happens.

 

I operate frequently out of three rural airports, two with landing fees and one without, and high agricultural spraying activity and high recreational activity. The crop sprayers make lots of landings in a days work.

 

I bet you can guess which airports have the "silent" arrivals and departures.

 

When there's other traffic around you quite often gets calls such as "This is Low wing joining downwind", "Jabiru or Tecnam joining final" etc. Its either no calls or descriptive calls without callsigns.

 

I have also heard of plenty of cases of aircraft using someone elses callsign. I got a number of bills for flying into Parafield while my aircraft was still being built in Cairns.

 

Sorry to disillusion you but pilots are like everyone else. Some will do whatever they can to save some money.

 

 

[poteroo]

You must be in the only part of Oz where that happens.

Thank you. We musn't be the 'wild west' anymore. cheers,

 

 

[planet47]

When it can cost $600 for an hour of circuits at Warnervale, yes it does.

$600 per hour for circuits at Warnervale - why?

 

 

[ozbear]

I don't care about the governments revenue but I do care about safety in the circuit so no call sign but give basic information at least is better than nothing .

 

 

[Jaba-who]

I don't care about the governments revenue but I do care about safety in the circuit so no call sign but give basic information at least is better than nothing .

Yep I agree to a point. From a safety aspect as long as they make the calls its ok.

 

Trouble with not paying your way is more complex. Most small australian airfields don't get "government" ( as in big government - federal or state) subsidy they are paid for by the local ratepayer/ council who have a tight budget and hankering to turn that noisy airfield into a residential development. While our landing fees never pay for the full cost of the airfield they do psychologically put the idea of "paying its way" in the mind of the councils. We as pilots shouldn't begrudge a small reasonable fee to pay for a place to land. If we don't they might take it away!

 

Oddly enough some councils who have dropped landing fees have shown economic benefits but there has to be a special set of circumstances. There the dropping of even smallish fees can stimulate visits and increase pilots staying and spending money on fuel, tourist activities and accomodation etc. but those attractions have to exist otherwise pilots won't come there anyway.

 

 

[ayavner]

i really wish they'd rebuild the cafe down at YWOL.

 

 

[KRviator]

$600 per hour for circuits at Warnervale - why?

The local council jacked up the charges a couple of years ago. Assuming I fly 1 hour of circuits a month, say at the end of a cross country or local junket.For aircraft based there:

 

Annual "Licence Fee": $605

 

Annual "Parking fee": $1650

 

Landing fee: $15 per landing - no daily rate like at Bankstown or other aerodromes.

 

"Refuelling fee": $110 just to refuel on council land!

 

Fuel: $100

 

Total: ((605+1650)/12)+(15*10)+110+100=$547 + perhaps $50 in the kitty for oil tyres and an engine overhaul.

 

For Itinerant aircraft:

 

$27.50 per landing, 10 circuits an hour. $275.

 

$110 "refuelling fee" just to refuel on council land!

 

Fuel, $100.

 

(27.50*10)+110+100=$485

 

 

[facthunter]

Get someone to put on breakfast like they used to at Shepparton. You get the members out and the visitors as well.

 

KR that would kill it off. Too greedy...Nev

 

 

[Ultralights]

landing fees themselves, No, excessive landing fees, Yes,

 

Warernvale being a good example, to land at Bankstown +$10, is class D, has ATIS and AWIS, top class runways and taxiways, well maintained airport, Warnervale for your$27 you get a scrap of what some would call tarmac about 4 ft wide, with more pot holes than most Australian roads, poor quality taxiways and parking areas. no lighting, no ATC, no AWIS no ATIS nothing...

 

 

[ayavner]

in that case, its probably meant as a deterrent

 

 

[facthunter]

IF it gets you angry it's less safe. Being angry makes you fly funny. Nev

 

 

[planet47]

The local council jacked up the charges a couple of years ago. Assuming I fly 1 hour of circuits a month, say at the end of a cross country or local junket.

......Sounds to me like the local council has imminent thoughts of land development! Have they actually made any improvements to the 02/20 runway in the past 4-5 years?

 

 

[AVOCET]

12 or so years back i rang Womera to ask to come in , they said yes , sure $400.00 landing fee .

 

Mike

 

 

[facthunter]

That's for the X rays. Nev