Low flying penalty

[acro]

im fine with that, live and let live, nobody has the right to restrict, punish or stand over others (that are hurting nobody), government or not, there is a possibility of being hurt in anything you do or dont do, thats life!

 

 

[dazza 38]

I have to agree with acro on a few points. Who gives the right for anybody to tell me what I can or cannot do ( apart from the obvious, like work). I mean, the governments of today have become all too powerful.

 

It is not a privileged to fly a aeroplane, or drive a boat etc. It is a right, and no retard from the government will tell me otherwise.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

ah so you decide what others human rights are?millions have died in wars so men could be free, we battled communism in the cold war because it is not something we want to be involved in, yet now it seems many are indoctrinated with this crazy left wing communist/socialist attitude of rules and regulations and a full on nanny state where you cant do anything and nothing is free.

 

As they say Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety, that means you give up your rights to the government and they give a little back as a privilege and those who support them do this to themselves and deserve nothing.

 

you get what you deserve, better hope you dont get a sentence one day for breaking a nanny state rule.

Hang on, USSR was on our side WW2. We'd all be driving Toyotas and watching Sony TVs without our soviet friends

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I have to agree with acro on a few points. Who gives the right for anybody to tell me what I can or cannot do ( apart from the obvious, like work). I mean, the governments of today have become all too powerful.It is not a privileged to fly a aeroplane, or drive a boat etc. It is a right, and no retard from the government will tell me otherwise.

Jesus daz, your showing signs of hydrocarbon poisoning now. Stop paying taxes if you disagree with gov.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Jesus daz, your showing signs of hydrocarbon poisoning now. Stop paying taxes if you disagree with gov.

Not that easy . What I am getting at is that men used to be tough in this country but now everybody bends overs and takes it up the backside.

No wonder the muslims are running riot in the middle east and here. We bend over backwards for the minority groups.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Stand up to Abbott's bully boys Daz

 

 

[acro]

Not that easy . What I am getting at is that men used to be tough in this country but now everybody bends overs and takes it up the backside.No wonder the muslims are running riot in the middle east and here. We bend over backwards for the minority groups.

thats my point, every freedom we had has been legislated away for our "safety", all because for everything that can be done there are 100 nanny whingers against it.

 

for example a boxer died recently after a fight in QLD, so nanny state sooks are now saying we should ban boxing, so what people die every day, one fact is that every single one of you is going to die one day and there is nothing you can do about it, so instead of sooking about things and restricting yourself and others for "safety", enjoy your one and only life.

 

if some bloke wants to fly low and crash its his right to do so, if someone wants to take an axe and go on a killing spree its not his right to do so

 

in everything there is inherent danger, but as long as there is no intention to hurt another in the act then just mind your own business, have fun and get on with life

 

 

[farri]

Frank I'm not saying it's right or wrong.

rhysmcc, not a problem with me, regardless! I respect your right to your own opinion as I do, others to theirs.

 

"We" referred to RA-AUS, the association of members.

As I see it, If, talking about the RA-Aus and the membership as a whole, then, "we", is appropriate, however, if, talking about an individual pilot who has done something stupid and/or illegal, then the comment, "We, will all be grounded" is not appropriate, nor accurate and sends the wrong message!

 

I believe the message that all pilots should be sending, is, " Treat all individual cases for what they are and don`t penalize everyone else for it."

 

Frank.

 

 

[nong]

Flying is a right.

 

It is most certainly NOT a privilege allowed me by my "betters".

 

It might surprise some to hear that there is a cohort of pilots who regard a bingle in a small aircraft as comparable to coming a gutza off a motorbike. "No biggie" if you can pick yourself up. If you can't. Well, sh!! happens. In fact, this was the prevailing attitude in the post WW2 glory days of light aviation.

 

Fact. We are animals. As such, a little carefree joie de vivre is in order!

 

 

[Phil Perry]

I don't agree with a jail sentence in this case. Jail is very expensive and should be reserved for crazy violent people where you are afraid of what they will do if they are not locked up.Jail is more expensive than the government providing extra places in medical school on scholarships.

In South Australia, there are over 2000 prisoners at over $300 a day each.. that's $600,000 a day. What a stupid way to waste money, as most of the inmates are there for non-violent things and you wouldn't be scared of meeting one down the street. As would be the case with this pilot, who was stupid and irresponsible but not a danger in the shopping center.

 

Not long ago we had a "thinker in residence" in South Australia who said this stuff, and I know the current government knows it too, but they reckon this jail stuff is what the public want and they would lose votes if they didn't steadily increase the prison population.

 

For myself, being bankrupted and disposessed would be far worse than being jailed for 6 months.

Hiya Bruce,. . . . .My Mother in law, who is 89 Yrs of age, and has advanced Alzheimers disease, is a resident of a care home, which costs her estate £813.64 PER WEEK. She has been in 2 previous care homes, requiring care to begin around three years ago.

 

She has to stump up for her own care because she worked really hard since joining the land army during WW2 at the age of 15,. . . until she was Forced to retire from a department store at the age of 64. She and my deceased Father in law paid their way and bought a house which, at the time she became ill was valued at £230K.

 

Following the depletion of her savings and investments, (a total of £31K ) on the aforementioned care,. . .Her Home was sequestered by the local health authority to pay for her ongoing care. (Please stay with me here – I will get to the point of this post eventually. . .! ) If a person had NO personal funds,. . .the smae level of care would be paid for by the Government. . . . .

 

She requires round the clock monitoring and TWO professional care workers to hoist her out of her bed ( can’t stand – Knee Op screwed up by surgeons resulting in too much bone being removed from her legs so that the prosthetic knees could no longer be attached. . . ) and has to be washed, dressed and hand fed, so YES. . . I can see why her care costs as much as it does.

 

What I cannot UNDERSTAND is why it costs so much to keep a person in a prison.

 

Yes, they have to be fed and clothed, . . . but where does the rest of the money go ? ? ? Prison officers don’t get paid any more than bus drivers in the UK, . . .do they in Australia I wonder. . .?

 

Am I being patently naive here ? Does it REALLY cost 300 bucks daily to keep someone incarcerated,. . .I guess it depends upon the total number of prisoners, the type of prison, . .the ratio of prisoners per officer, how much ground rent they pay for the building, . . . how much profit they want. . . STILL. . seems a lot of dosh for bread and water three times daily, ( What ? they get better food ? . . .Why ? )

 

On the post topic,. . . I believe anyone who recklessly endangers both themselves and others by misuse of a machine, the operation of which they have no qualifiication to use,. . . .DESERVE nothing less than a custodial sentence of some sort. I appreciate what you say, but I really don't believe that the proverbial slap on the wrist ought to be applied in these cases.

 

Phil

 

 

[Phil Perry]

You are possessed?Sorry Bruce, couldn't resist . Yeah the incarceration costs in this country are outrageous, I can't see why low risk prisoners cant be sent to an 'assemble yourself' tent city out the back of Woomera. Good enough for the Army.

Agreed GG,. . . . . . did any of you see a doco about some Sherriff in the States ( where else . . .! ) who had all his prisoners installed in tents, wearing PINK prison garb, and having to do all their own cooking and laundry, slopping out etc. . . . . . He was REALLY popular with the state Government, as he used to run an extremely LOW COST prison, with heavily enforced, Iron clad rules.

 

He kept on getting re-elected, and is totally unapologetic for his "So called" inhumane treatment of his guests. . . . . . I SOOOOOOO wish . . .we could get away with that here,. . .as it REALLY would be a DETERRENT to ever going back inside ? ? ? . . . .yeah, I know,. . .to many looney leftie apologists for any crime committed by lowlife people, . . . . Dream on Phil. . . .

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Flying is a right.It is most certainly NOT a privilege allowed me by my "betters".

It might surprise some to hear that there is a cohort of pilots who regard a bingle in a small aircraft as comparable to coming a gutza off a motorbike. "No biggie" if you can pick yourself up. If you can't. Well, sh!! happens. In fact, this was the prevailing attitude in the post WW2 glory days of light aviation.

 

Fact. We are animals. As such, a little carefree joie de vivre is in order!

Agreed Nong,. . .( psst,. . .stop using French . . .you'll get labelled a bloody poofter mate. . . .! )

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Kasper, Exactly what do you mean? I take it you`re talking about an RA-Aus member, if so, RA-Aus does not come into it, " If not a member."

 

Just out of interest, I remember a news report here (was quite some time ago) that a guy flying a Trike (Microlite) over the English channel, was attempting to fly around the world and due to bad weather, ditched into the ocean, between England and France. Was it the same guy?

 

Frank.

No,. . . he took off against strong advice, on the first leg of his tround the world trip, into seriously bad visibility, which became even worse mid - channel. The DGAC ( French ) and AAIB report states that he lost control of the aircraft in IMC and spiralled into the sea. His body was found a couple of days afterwards. His name was Martyn Bromage. A "Normally" very careful and sensible pilot. If you log on to the UK CAA site, and look for AAIB reports, you can read the entire story. Very sad, but a case of over exhuberance, press, and a whole load of well wishers present at the departure, and him not wanting to disappoint the onlookers is my own take on the story. No doubt this kind of situation has arisen in the past, and it will probably happen again. . . .as is human nature. It's a hard thing to do, to say, hey, look, it just isn't safe,. . .I know that some of you have driven a long way today to see me off, but maybe tomorrow. . . . . . .

 

Phil

 

 

[Phil Perry]

QUOTE="fly_tornado, post: 482637, member: 5669"]Hang on, USSR was on our side WW2. We'd all be driving Toyotas and watching Sony TVs without our soviet friends

 

Sorry FT,. . .sometimes you inject some commonsense into various arguments and I find your surgical humour very entertaining most of the time,. . .BUT RUSSIA SAVING US ? ? ? ? . . . .oh dear mate, I'm only a mere Amateur historian, but I CAN read. Not only that I had three family members involoved on those horrible naval convoys from the UK to Murmansk, suffering terrible loss of life and thousands of tons of shipping lost to the U-boats. . .to make sure the Russkies had some guns, ammunition, vehicles, foodstuffs, field rations and all sorts of other ordinance to help prevent the nazis ( small "n" deliberate ) from overwhelming them completely. Geez,. . .even bloody Stalin grudgingly admitted that. . . . . By the way,. . .I drive a toyota ute, and have a Sony LCD telly ,. . .so who won really I wonder ? ? ?

 

Rant over. . . .back to topic ?

 

 

[Phil Perry]

thats my point, every freedom we had has been legislated away for our "safety", all because for everything that can be done there are 100 nanny whingers against it.for example a boxer died recently after a fight in QLD, so nanny state sooks are now saying we should ban boxing, so what people die every day, one fact is that every single one of you is going to die one day and there is nothing you can do about it, so instead of sooking about things and restricting yourself and others for "safety", enjoy your one and only life.

if some bloke wants to fly low and crash its his right to do so, if someone wants to take an axe and go on a killing spree its not his right to do so

 

in everything there is inherent danger, but as long as there is no intention to hurt another in the act then just mind your own business, have fun and get on with life

What was that old adage,. . . . . ."Do thine own thing,. . . .BUT do NOT impinge nor bring damage upon the right of others to do theirs. . . . . ."

 

 

[REastwood]

So, as long as there is no intention to hurt another then having a "bit of fun" is OK? So the guy who decides to do a few burn-outs in the street and a few drags up and down the road (not hurting anyone - but against the law) loses control and slams into a house, killing an occupant in the house (as happened in SA). So what, people die all the time, he had no intention of killing anybody - oh well that's life! But one innocent persons life is over, several others are affected for the rest of their life, not to mention the cost (oh it's OK, the house is insured - but the premiums go up so they still have to pay!) all because one person wanted the freedom to do what he wanted. You speak of rights, does one person have the right to take away the rights of another person? If I have the right to peace and quite does someone else have the right to take that away from me?

 

For tens of thousands of years humans have lived in a society, from small groups up to millions of people. When ever you live in a society you sacrifice your freedoms for the benefits that society provides. Some societies expect a lot of sacrifice, some not as much - but all require some. If you are not prepared to make the sacrifice then you must leave society, and all that it provides, or be punished by the laws of that society. If you choose to leave then remember society, and it's people, indirectly provide your clothes, food, transport, shelter etc. Transport yourself to a deserted island with nothing- nothing manufactured, bought etc, and start from scratch - then you can be free to do what you want.

 

For those who think flying & driving is a right - think again. If they were basic human rights, or even social rights then why do we have a licence? In Australia we most likely have the right to apply for a licence but certainly do not have the right to fly without one, and when we do get a licence we certainly do not have the right to fly however we want, we must abide by the rules as dictated by society otherwise the licence will be taken from us, i.e. the privilege to fly will be revoked.

 

If you don't like this societies rules then try and find one more to your liking, maybe they will let you live there, but I can guarantee they will still have rules and regulations.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Its your right to fly right up to the point that you hurt a non participant. You have no Right to do that and expect no consequences...... Call it right or call it privilege, I personal couldn't care which ever label you apply but understand that if your actions, even unintentionally have the ability to affect others that are not in any way participating then Governments will always put in place risk management methodologies to try and minimise the likelihood of hurt......Some call that risk management a privilege by virtue of the fact that if the government perceives you are not participating in the risk reductions required then they'll risk reduce you out of that activity...... or suffer the legal consequences when the hurt party, or estate, perceives that the Gov failed in its duty of care.

 

In my opinion its right and sensible given that when someone is hurt under Australian Government its the taxpayer that picks up the cost of emergency services and medical care.

 

 

[acro]

Hiya Bruce,. . . . .My Mother in law, who is 89 Yrs of age, and has advanced Alzheimers disease, is a resident of a care home, which costs her estate £813.64 PER WEEK. She has been in 2 previous care homes, requiring care to begin around three years ago.She has to stump up for her own care because she worked really hard since joining the land army during WW2 at the age of 15,. . . until she was Forced to retire from a department store at the age of 64. She and my deceased Father in law paid their way and bought a house which, at the time she became ill was valued at £230K.

 

Following the depletion of her savings and investments, (a total of £31K ) on the aforementioned care,. . .Her Home was sequestered by the local health authority to pay for her ongoing care. (Please stay with me here – I will get to the point of this post eventually. . .! ) If a person had NO personal funds,. . .the smae level of care would be paid for by the Government. . . . .

 

She requires round the clock monitoring and TWO professional care workers to hoist her out of her bed ( can’t stand – Knee Op screwed up by surgeons resulting in too much bone being removed from her legs so that the prosthetic knees could no longer be attached. . . ) and has to be washed, dressed and hand fed, so YES. . . I can see why her care costs as much as it does.

 

What I cannot UNDERSTAND is why it costs so much to keep a person in a prison.

 

Yes, they have to be fed and clothed, . . . but where does the rest of the money go ? ? ? Prison officers don’t get paid any more than bus drivers in the UK, . . .do they in Australia I wonder. . .?

 

Am I being patently naive here ? Does it REALLY cost 300 bucks daily to keep someone incarcerated,. . .I guess it depends upon the total number of prisoners, the type of prison, . .the ratio of prisoners per officer, how much ground rent they pay for the building, . . . how much profit they want. . . STILL. . seems a lot of dosh for bread and water three times daily, ( What ? they get better food ? . . .Why ? )

 

On the post topic,. . . I believe anyone who recklessly endangers both themselves and others by misuse of a machine, the operation of which they have no qualifiication to use,. . . .DESERVE nothing less than a custodial sentence of some sort. I appreciate what you say, but I really don't believe that the proverbial slap on the wrist ought to be applied in these cases.

 

Phil

it is because most prisons are private, they get $xx per person, have a read http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-judge-receives-28year-jail-term-for-his-role-in--kidsforcash-kickbacks-8598147.html

 

 

[acro]

So, as long as there is no intention to hurt another then having a "bit of fun" is OK? So the guy who decides to do a few burn-outs in the street and a few drags up and down the road (not hurting anyone - but against the law) loses control and slams into a house, killing an occupant in the house (as happened in SA). So what, people die all the time, he had no intention of killing anybody - oh well that's life! But one innocent persons life is over, several others are affected for the rest of their life, not to mention the cost (oh it's OK, the house is insured - but the premiums go up so they still have to pay!) all because one person wanted the freedom to do what he wanted. You speak of rights, does one person have the right to take away the rights of another person? If I have the right to peace and quite does someone else have the right to take that away from me?For tens of thousands of years humans have lived in a society, from small groups up to millions of people. When ever you live in a society you sacrifice your freedoms for the benefits that society provides. Some societies expect a lot of sacrifice, some not as much - but all require some. If you are not prepared to make the sacrifice then you must leave society, and all that it provides, or be punished by the laws of that society. If you choose to leave then remember society, and it's people, indirectly provide your clothes, food, transport, shelter etc. Transport yourself to a deserted island with nothing- nothing manufactured, bought etc, and start from scratch - then you can be free to do what you want.

For those who think flying & driving is a right - think again. If they were basic human rights, or even social rights then why do we have a licence? In Australia we most likely have the right to apply for a licence but certainly do not have the right to fly without one, and when we do get a licence we certainly do not have the right to fly however we want, we must abide by the rules as dictated by society otherwise the licence will be taken from us, i.e. the privilege to fly will be revoked.

 

If you don't like this societies rules then try and find one more to your liking, maybe they will let you live there, but I can guarantee they will still have rules and regulations.

there will be dickheads everywhere no matter what laws you have, you are well indoctrinated though

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Someone once said every aviation law is written in blood.

 

 

[acro]

look at this guy here http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/driver-who-killed-pedestrian-spared-jail/story-e6frfku9-1227267929710

 

A FATHER who killed a pedestrian after passing out from a whooping cough fit and losing control of his car has been spared an immediate jail term.

STEPHEN Gogos, 34, was driving through major road works in Forrestdale in November 2013 when he passed out.

 

His wife was forced to take the wheel and swerve to avoid traffic but the car crossed onto a gravel path and hit 20-year-old Bronwen Thurlow, who later died in hospital from "unsurvivable injuries". Gogos was handed a 12-month suspended prison sentence in the District Court of Western Australia on Wednesday.

why was he even charged? driving a car is risky, shit happens and people die, does he deserve to be charged and go to jail? wtf is wrong with this country

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

look at this guy here http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/driver-who-killed-pedestrian-spared-jail/story-e6frfku9-1227267929710

 

why was he even charged? driving a car is risky, **** happens and people die, does he deserve to be charged and go to jail? wtf is wrong with this country

Lets talk about "Shit Happens"

 

Its my view that "Shit Happens" is the type of thing that happens, but isn't really expected in terms of probability. People get struck by lighting, or hit by meteors, but it generally doesn't enter our though process as a likely risk....

 

Driving a car while infected with Whooping cough, a diseases that can kill small children, and is reportable by Dr's throughout Australia to me suggests that the risk of something happening while driving the car is no longer in the same realms as being struck by a meteor.......

 

Perhaps the Prosecutor felt that the death of a non participant by someone who could have reasonably been expected to have seen the increased risks, while there was a fit alternate driver in the car was not truly "shit happens!"

 

If you adopt that approach that a shrug of the shoulders and a mumbled "shit happens" is sufficient absolution then at what point of devastation is the tipping point from Ok to not Ok.....Perhaps J. Robert Oppenheimer when he said "I am become death...." was heard to add a "but shit happens" to the end of that statement...........

 

 

[turboplanner]

This thread shows that there are some dangerously irresponsible people among us, probably taking innocent passengers up with them, and telling the passengers they're "safe"

 

Kaz spelled out the penalties for reckless actions when someone isn't killed or injured, so that more or less matches the statements outlining the macho "I can do what I want" theme. That covers past activities by at least one poster on the thread, and if I fund out about his actions, you can bet authorities with better equipment will be keeping a watch on him.

 

However, quite often these cowboys make a misjudgement, and then the real penalties kick in.

 

My advice? Treat these big noters like lepers.

 

 

[turboplanner]

This is the one that that really piss#es me off the most and I`ve been flying Ultralights since the late mid eighties!Why should everyone be penalized because of the actions of an individual? To me, this nonsense and wrong! If anyone can give me a good reason why it should be so, I`d like to have it. I would not expect that everyone to be grounded for some stupid thing that I did.

 

Frank.

There are many examples where the actions of less than 5% of participants in activity, have seriously restricted that activity.

 

Even when no member of an organization has done anything wrong, you can have your activity banned by governments who react emotionally to pressure groups.

 

The Victorian Government announced just today that Cattle grazing in Victoria's High Country has been banned.....and that's the total annual income for some farmers.

 

While it would seem grossly unfair to us for RA aircraft to be totally banned, don't kid yourself that it can't happen if someone does the unthinkable.

 

 

[acro]

There are many examples where the actions of less than 5% of participants in activity, have seriously restricted that activity.Even when no member of an organization has done anything wrong, you can have your activity banned by governments who react emotionally to pressure groups.

 

The Victorian Government announced just today that Cattle grazing in Victoria's High Country has been banned.....and that's the total annual income for some farmers.

 

While it would seem grossly unfair to us for RA aircraft to be totally banned, don't kid yourself that it can't happen if someone does the unthinkable.

that can only happen when the weak and gutless allow it. honestly there are some stupid people here