looking for unfinished aircraft frame or kit

[Guest Kevmarquand]

I saw pictures of the spar where the front half is surface profile but the rear half falls away, Scott me buggered why they do that.I also just realised where you are, I hope I might drop in one day soon when I go to Mum and Dad's at Goolwa.

 

Look at the Mini Max range.

thanks bex I do like the minimax. and I know im starting to sound picky but they are wood and and fabric. and I would prefer either a full aluminium riveted plane or Chromolloy tube fuselage and riveted wings like the tornado.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Kev, the Zenith planes are pretty good in that the plans are comprehensive and the structure is logical & relatively easy to build (time consuming, but not too difficult).

 

However the 701/750 are good STOL designs, but they're not the fastest aircraft around. Even the Savannahs, which are VERY similar to the 701, are a bit faster.

 

Have you considered the low wing 650? Check out www.zenith.aero and zenithair.com.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

marty zenith are currently showing off how to build the cruzer wings on their youtube channel

 

 

[waraton]

This is an old thread but relevant to a hangar chat I had today where we wondering how many projects get delivered and never opened or started and never completed. Do you know of any examples at your airfield?

[brucechurch]

Who is going to do the work and sign out ?????

[walrus]

Waraton, I believe the figure is 50% for original builder completion. I am aware of at least one project that was given away to a new builder.

 

‘’The Zeniths are great kits and great aircraft. So are RV’s. The RV is for the younger builder. If you are 60 or older, build a Zenith. It’s quicker and by the time you finish you should still be able to fly.

[skippydiesel]

2 hours ago, waraton said:

This is an old thread but relevant to a hangar chat I had today where we wondering how many projects get delivered and never opened or started and never completed. Do you know of any examples at your airfield?

Waraton; My ATEC Zephyr (originally a kit) is in need of a partial rebuild (a very cheap way to enter the world of RAA aircraft ownership). This is/was an exceptional aircraft with an astonishingly wide flight envelope. beautifully intuitive to fly and economical to operate. As Walrus (above) alluded, time starts to run out and rebuilding  is not something I wish to do at this stage in my life. Happy to supply all the details including photos to anyone who may be interested.

[kgwilson]

When I built my Sierra I knew of at least 4 other kits that got started at around the same time but never found out whether they got completed or not.

[onetrack]

Someone bought this 23 yr old new unused RV-6 kit a couple of years ago. I hate to think what new 23 yr old unused engine looks like inside.

 

I've seen reconditioned engines rust up/lock up after 2 yrs of storage that was undercover, and with all outlets/inlets taped.

 

https://www.planesales.com.au/details/Listing/LSA-Experimental/4373/1996-Vans-RV6-Kit

[spacesailor]

AND  

16  Hummel Birds that were Not built.

One went to the Tip ( Garbage that is ) One given away, One Turned into a child's toy.

Spacesailor

[Thruster88]

13 hours ago, onetrack said:

Someone bought this 23 yr old new unused RV-6 kit a couple of years ago. I hate to think what new 23 yr old unused engine looks like inside.

 

I've seen reconditioned engines rust up/lock up after 2 yrs of storage that was undercover, and with all outlets/inlets taped.

 

https://www.planesales.com.au/details/Listing/LSA-Experimental/4373/1996-Vans-RV6-Kit

If it was new from lycoming it would have come inhibited with instructions for on going storage. Probably in better shape than one used irregularly for 23 years, there are many like this doing just fine.

[FlyingVizsla]

I know of plenty of unfinished aircraft builds for sale - if anyone would take them.  A lot are going to be more trouble to get flying than if you got something new.  Then there are the post accident rebuilds - know a few of them.  Getting them back on the Register GA or RAA is going to be a bridge too far for most people, unless you have lots of time & money.  Engines are going to be a problem - out of time, rusted up, no parts.

[facthunter]

Once you run them they are more trouble to look after. You have to "re-invigorate " the treatment after a while.. Combustion by products are very chemically active particularly with moisture around,. A plastic bag, sealed with a hygroscopic substance in it is a big help, but you have to neutralise the "rubbish" first .  It's a bit of an art getting it right.  I have been know to rotate the whole engine to distribute storage oil all through the internals then turn it over by turning the crankshaft. Air higher up (of the floor) in a shed is drier  but you never want condensation  about. Dust is generally corrosive long term also and things like Bat poop . Nev

Edited May 4, 2021 by facthunter

[skippydiesel]

OMG!!!! - You guys are soooo negative -Ref rebuilds:  a conscientious owner has already obtain a full engine inspection and "sign off" from Bert Flood Rotax, applied the recommended "storage" regime to prevent all of the possible problems, of which you mention. 

 

Further, you make such sweeping statements, without any consideration to the obvious huge variation, in the degree of damage sustained. This could be anything from a minor ground incident to an unrecoverable airframe, with every "shade of grey" between.

 

[facthunter]

What (roughly) is the % of planes owner built recently?  Outside the SAAA. I bet it's low and reducing.. It's got to be a goer for some. I'd check all with the RAAus. I DID all the way but still got dudded. I don't blame the RAAus. I would say THEY are now less qualified to give hands on advice though, than back a while. Nev

[spacesailor]

WHY buy old .?

 

" www.slatteryauctions.com.au " 

$5,000 Grob G115 . Looks great ,

BUT

YOU Will need some one there, to do what ever is needed to aquire an air worthy plane.

SO

Good luck, ( l,m a bit jealous, l like That one   ).

spacesailor

[onetrack]

Spacey, old mate - The largest number of those Grobs in W.A. are the equivalent of 700,000km ex-taxi Falcons - well-hammered, worn out, and only fit for parting out - and $5000 is a pretty generous bid.

[Blueadventures]

4 hours ago, FlyingVizsla said:

I know of plenty of unfinished aircraft builds for sale - if anyone would take them.  A lot are going to be more trouble to get flying than if you got something new.  Then there are the post accident rebuilds - know a few of them.  Getting them back on the Register GA or RAA is going to be a bridge too far for most people, unless you have lots of time & money.  Engines are going to be a problem - out of time, rusted up, no parts.

That could be a whole new list under classifieds they just need a friend to help with the advert / listing as could help out both sides.  Need some details, images and a price with ONO; otherwise not worth the effort in chasing up or considering. 

 

It could then be like an online boot sale at the markets or car, bike meets.

 

When I went to Temora in Easter 2010 there was a display of items with process on from aircraft parts, tools and equipment.  I both a couple of things.  The sellers weren't there just had a price and contact.  People manning the stand took the payment.

 

Cheers

[spacesailor]

The top bids are over $ 12,000. with most still under $ 10,000.

that makes $ 5g about half way. second hand parts would get that price surely.

The auction notes:

"TOTAL TIME IN SERVICE: 12124.3

TTR: 10775.7 (EXTENSION HAS BEEN CERTIFIED)  LONG LIFE REMAINING ON AIRFRAME & ENGINE."

Constant speed prop " TIME BEFORE OVERHAUL: 1429.4 "

Seems a lot of hours left for private flying.

BUT

The gelcoat and screen are in need of some TLC.

The panel is over the top for a sunday flyer.

( If only l had a Licence )

spacesailor

[onetrack]

Spacey, one thing I've learned from many years of repairing and restoring machinery, vehicles and equipment, is - everything looks like a bargain or an easy repair, until you get right into the nitty-gritty of actually fixing the item properly, and making it fully operational, and safe to operate.

Then you start finding all the hidden damage, and the failing components, that you never expected to have to repair/replace.

 

Then the bill for parts starts stacking up - and the hours on the project start blowing out, until it becomes the never-ending project! We have a saying here - when you take on what looks like a simple and easy job - you double the number, and go to the next highest unit!

That means - a job that looks like a 10 minute job, becomes a 20 hour job - a job that looks like 1 week, takes 2 months - and something that looks like a 2 month job, becomes a 4 year job!

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by onetrack

[spacesailor]

Yes

That does happen.

Has happened to a motorist in NZ. Took car in with gearbox problem, Mechanic said repair or exchange ? How much said owner .repair 2 thirds of exchange !.

Three years later owner takes garage to court over excessive cost & time, court agreed , Garage had to put a NEW gearbox into car and hand it back, for owner to get it Reregistered. 

Cost owner twice the value of the car. But it was a Classic car.

 

How do those Chinese companies get their work done !, If the cost blows out that much ?.

spacesailor

Edited May 4, 2021 by spacesailor
missed sentence

[onetrack]

I doubt whether the Chinese have ever spent any more than the minimum CASA requirements, to keep those Grobs airborne. And it shows, in the number of them that have been cannibalised.

[spacesailor]

Not just those at WA. BUT

" Flight Training Adelaide– 2 aircraft 

Australian Flying School – 8 aircraft "

 

 China Southern West Australian Flying College – 38 aircraft

Egyptian Air Force – 74 aircraft

Royal Air Force – 89 aircraft

 SO ,

 China Southern wasn't the greatest of the trainee fleets around the world , l wonder if All the RAF were Grob 115 Tutor aircraft.

spacesailor

[onetrack]

Spacey - Wikipedia says the main RAF training fleet of light aircraft, contains just 23 Grobs - and they're not Grob 115 Tutor aircraft, they're Grob G 120TP turboprop trainers.

 

However, the RAF own 89 Grob 115E Tutors that are used to train uni students and cadets. But the article does go on to say a small number of the RAF Grob 115E Tutors are utilised for initial flying training for RAF student pilots, by 3FTS.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grob_G_115

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by onetrack

[kgwilson]

Half a dozen of them for 2-5k each & you'd have enough bits to keep one going for a fair while. A new windscreen though would probably cost as much as a couple of them.