A320 crash

[Teckair]

Would 149 people be enough to arrest the decent if they all ran to the aft of the cabin? Just a thought, what harm could it have done?

That is a novel idea, but probably would not work, tail heavy spin and crash.

 

 

[dazza 38]

I think if somebody, whether a pilot or terrorist gets in the cockpit and locks everybody and decides to crash it. It is all over. Great idea above because it is thinking outside the square IRT moving all the pax to the back. But the dude in the cockpit would just shut down the engines. They are going to crash regardless.

 

 

[dazza 38]

The easiest way to combat this scenario is a policy where there is always two members of the crew inside the cockpit at all times. Or have air marshalls on every flight who can bypass the overide system that currently is in place.

 

 

[Bennyboy320]

You can't have someone outside the flight deck with a by pass code, it defeats the purpose of looking the door in the first place. As mentioned earlier you can open the door from outside with a delay, it takes one of the pilots to select lock which will deactivate the keypad outside the flight deck for between 5-20 mins depending on the airline requirements. Reference the A320 FCOM eg flight manual.

 

 

[dutchroll]

(calls cabin) "Gidday this is Capt Bob. I need to take a dump. Send someone up to make sure Dutchy doesn't kill us all, will you?"

 

(cabin response) "No worries skipper - Effie is coming up to mind him"

 

Capt Bob goes out, Effie comes in.

 

Effie comes in. Looks a little tense. Sits on jumpseat, stares at Dutchy intently.

 

(Effie) "WOAH!! What are you reaching up to that panel for??"

 

(Dutchy) "I'm changing the range scale on the nav display. Is that ok?"

 

(Effie) "Oh....ok.....yeah sure."

 

Another minute passes. Nervous silence from Effie.

 

(Effie) "HEY!!!! What are you moving that switch for?"

 

(Dutchy) "I just turned my foot heater on. Is that ok?"

 

(Effie) "Oh.....yeah it is a bit chilly isn't it?"

 

I mean, I just can't friggin' wait.

 

Alternate scenario:

 

Effie has just come into the cockpit. Capt Bob is taking his dump.

 

(Dutchy) "Effie, what are you doing?"

 

(Effie) "I'm taking this crash axe off the wall. I'm going to end it all."

 

(Dutchy) "Ok Effie, hang on a minute, let's talk this thr............. (shouting on CVR, Dutchy never finishes his sentence)

 

And again for a 3rd scenario I hark back to the complete absurdity of the American "two in the cockpit" rules. The remaining pilot has a friggin' gun!! What the HELL is his flight attendant "minder" going to do if he's suicidal and wants to take the whole planeload out with him?

 

 

[dazza 38]

You can't have someone outside the flight deck with a by pass code, it defeats the purpose of looking the door in the first place. As mentioned earlier you can open the door from outside with a delay, it takes one of the pilots to select lock which will deactivate the keypad outside the flight deck for between 5-20 mins depending on the airline requirements. Reference the A320 FCOM eg flight manual.

If a air marshall can carry a gun, he can also be responsible enough to carry some sort of electronic over ride key.

 

 

[Happyflyer]

If a air marshall can carry a gun, he can also be responsible enough to carry some sort of electronic over ride key.

I don't think it is whether on not the air marshal is responsible enough, it's that if he's overpowered the bad guys have the key.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

And again for a 3rd scenario

...and for the the 4th scenario ...

 

Effie takes her hair tie off and starts to slowly unbutton her blouse ....

 

 

[rankamateur]

...and for the the 4th scenario ...Effie takes her hair tie off and starts to slowly unbutton her blouse ....

When I thought about it, this was the first scenario, and there wasn't anything slow about it, she ripped the buttons open with gusto!

 

 

[Happyflyer]

It sounds like the co-pilot was getting treatment for some mental issues. The problem was that he kept this from his employer and authorities. Our health system is largely computerized and we all have medicare and private health insurance numbers. Perhaps if you hold a class 1 medical certificate this could be flagged on the health system with mandatory reporting requirements for certain health issues.

 

 

[dazza 38]

I don't think it is whether on not the air marshal is responsible enough, it's that if he's overpowered the bad guys have the key.

Maybe, but the pax shouldn't know who he or she is.

 

 

[dazza 38]

At the end of the day, it is still statistically very unlikely to die in this situation. But $hit happens I guess.

 

 

[red750]

Lubitz: I'll do something that will make them remember me.

 

https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/26823497/germanwings-crash-co-pilot-hid-illness-from-airline/

 

 

[farri]

And again for a 3rd scenario I hark back to the complete absurdity of the American "two in the cockpit" rules. The remaining pilot has a friggin' gun!! What the HELL is his flight attendant "minder" going to do if he's suicidal and wants to take the whole planeload out with him?

 

Yeah,I guess you`re right! Is there a solution?. probably not!. Hang on there!How did the remaining pilot get the friggin gun into the cockpit,er, flight deck?

 

 

[dazza 38]

Lubitz: I'll do something that will make them remember me.https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/26823497/germanwings-crash-co-pilot-hid-illness-from-airline/

I read this and it is scary. And this dude must have been seriously mental. I don't care if people want to top themselves. But to kill 149 others is more than just suicide. It is terrorism .

 

 

[skeptic36]

Maybe, but the pax shouldn't know who he or she is.

So they ask who has the key, no one answers. They grab a pax and shoot em in the head, they ask again, who has the key........

 

 

[Marty_d]

So they ask who has the key, no one answers. They grab a pax and shoot em in the head, they ask again, who has the key........

How did they get the gun on board, can't even take a nail file on these days.

 

Regardless, I think Dutchroll is right (which is perhaps not surprising given his profession) - there is no knee-jerk reaction that could stop this. Perhaps a little more attention to psychiatric issues - which apparently were known in this case - but even that is not going to pick up every case.

 

 

[PA.]

So they ask who has the key, no one answers. They grab a pax and shoot em in the head, they ask again, who has the key........

The guy in 3A points to his wife and says "She does."

 

 

[skeptic36]

How did they get the gun on board, can't even take a nail file on these days..

O.K , so they put their belt around her neck and pull it up tight.............

 

 

[Marty_d]

O.K , so they put their belt around her neck and pull it up tight.............

....at which point any two or 3 brave passengers jump on them and wrestle them to the ground as it takes a bit longer than a few seconds to strangle someone.

The one good thing to come out of 9/11 is that people know if they let a terrorist take over the plane they will shortly be dead, so there's absolutely nothing to lose by fighting back.

 

 

[Geoff13]

O.K , so they put their belt around her neck and pull it up tight.............

So then the armed air marshall pulls his weapon say loudly and clearly I have the code and promptly shoots the perp. Nmp

 

 

[bexrbetter]

The guy in 3A points to his wife and says "She does."

That's bloody harsh Mate.

 

But fair.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

If a air marshall can carry a gun, he can also be responsible enough to carry some sort of electronic over ride key.

Good idea, we need more basic jobs for immigrants. Not many goat-herder roles about in Australia and airport security have hired all they need. BTW should that not read "an air marshall"?

 

It sounds like the co-pilot was getting treatment for some mental issues. The problem was that he kept this from his employer and authorities. Our health system is largely computerized and we all have medicare and private health insurance numbers. Perhaps if you hold a class 1 medical certificate this could be flagged on the health system with mandatory reporting requirements for certain health issues.

Now Brandis will be able to track all pilots internet use & phone calls so getting there. Of course pilots with mental health issues may then chose not to go to a doctor....

 

 

[dazza 38]

So they ask who has the key, no one answers. They grab a pax and shoot em in the head, they ask again, who has the key........

It doesn't work that way, a air marshall has to be able to hit a head size target with in a certain distance, ( pretty close) in a small amount of time. They use fragmentation bullets that dont penetrate the fuselage. Air marshals are not soft c*cks. They wouldn't be in the job if they were.

 

 

[Birdseye]

BTW should that not read "an air marshall"?

In these days of equal opportunity, probably should be Anne Air Marshal.