A320 crash

[Harbourtrade]

I do agree, that everything is a race to the bottom these days. I'm surprised I haven't yet seen airline tickets available on a Discount Voucher Site.

 

I'd like to see "safe minimum fares" charged for tickets.

 

If anyone wants to fly say, Sydney/Melbourne in a $350M piece of machinery and all the infrastructure, training etc that goes with it they should be forced to pay say a minimum of say $150. If they don't want to then they can go and catch a greyhound bus.

 

Flying to Melbourne for $89 is shameful.

 

 

[facthunter]

Unrealistic fares promote cutting corners. Good people often work for some "ordinary" airlines. That is the way it is, but if not enough fuel is carried when something happens the pilot is blamed often. The depressurised flight PNR is the most critical situation faced in normal ops for fuel considerations. Nev

 

 

[Jabiru Phil]

I believe that the knee jerk reaction to have two persons in the cockpit was to placate the travelling public.

 

The real remedy soon would be to have an access code, personal password or finger print, iris recognition or something similar for the pilots.

 

And perhaps a barrier of sorts that can be easily activated to isolate the passengers for a short time.

 

Just a thought.

 

PHIL

 

 

[jetjr]

Wouldnt the second person only need the skills to open the door?

 

 

[ayavner]

what if the second person is the one who is suicidal?

 

 

[facthunter]

Or has been pressured to open the door with a gun to their head? That's where all this started. Nev

 

 

[PA.]

Just install one of these in the cockpits, problem solved.

 

 

 

[DGL Fox]

Build all new jets with an ensuite to the cockpit...I don't know if they could be retro fitted to existing aircraft...probably comes down to money again I guess..

 

David

 

 

[octave]

Although these measures don't ensure that this could never happen again, I don't see them as being totally as useless as some people seem to think for the following reasons.

 

1) this suicidal pilot did not seem to be up for overpowering the captain so perhaps they would not be up overpowering a cabin crew member attempting to open the cabin door.

 

2) in this case (as far as we know) we were not dealing with an ideological terrorist but a depressed suicidal person. We know that often suicidal people can be talked out of it, for example, lifeline or literally talking someone down from the edge of a cliff. I think it would be much better for a suicidal pilot to be in the cockpit with another person than alone.

 

3) Other benefits could be insurance against a pilot left alone (perhaps on a long haul flight) falling asleep.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2271293/How-plane-left-controls-mid-flight-pilot-fell-asleep-leaving-pilot-locked-cockpit.html

 

In my opinion so far no one has presented an argument that the negatives of these new rules would outweigh the positives.

 

 

[Marty_d]

OK,. . .not a BAD idea,. . . .then someone asks . . . ." What about if there was a sudden emergency, requiring a rapid change of direction / level ? " . . . . . five or ten minutes is a little too long I would suggest,. . . Another worthy poster on this thread, reckoned that he could place an aircraft in a pretty well unrecoverable condition of flight in under thirty seconds. . . . . NEXT IDEA . . . . .?Intrinsically good thinking,. . . . but too many caveats.

 

( BTW. . . I KNOW he won't really do this, . . .otherwise he would not have told us about it. . . )

 

Phil

The autopilot doesn't lock the flight path. It just flies the plane according to the instructions the pilot has given it. Lubitz crashed the A320 into the mountainside on autopilot.A TCAS RA requires disconnection of the autopilot and changing the flight path in accordance with the TCAS commands within 5 seconds.

 

A depressurisation is flown on autopilot but requires immediate pilot input (autopilot mode changes).

 

An engine failure in the cruise is also flown on autopilot but requires pilot input (autopilot mode changes) within around 30-60 seconds to avoid excessive speed loss.

 

A severe turbulence encounter requires immediate pilot input and may cause the autopilot to disconnect all by itself.

 

During which 5 minute period are you going to exclude these probabilities?

See post #317

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

This discussion seems to have overlooked a parallel situation where safeguards against human stupidity actually work: nuclear weapons management. Despite there being tens of thousands of the damn things poised to send us to oblivion, not once has a crazy person launched one.

 

If the threat is great enough, perhaps airlines could adopt some of the fail safe protocols used by the Soviet, Americans and (hopefully) all the other nuclear powers.

 

These procedures have worked effectively for half a century- but there have been some close calls:

 

Vasili Arkhipov saved the world; twice!

 

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2013/05/vasili-arkhipov-the-man-who-saved-the-world/

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/oct/27/vasili-arkhipov-stopped-nuclear-war

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

For security we also need at least one person in the cargo hold to keep a watch. Or have a nap.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

 

It had to happen,. . . .I'm glad I wasn't the first to suggest this. . . . . .

 

 

[Marty_d]

Also comes in handy when a near miss makes them sh*t themselves.

 

Will pilots now bother with pants at all, or just the shirt & jacket?

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Also comes in handy when a near miss makes them sh*t themselves.Will pilots now bother with pants at all, or just the shirt & jacket?

Sorry folks,. . .don't mean to make light of a fatal incident,. . . my Airbus 330 captain friend sent the above funnypic. . . . .

 

 

[facthunter]

You may have lifted the lid on a sensitive issue Phil. Better than being bog ignorant. Nev

 

 

[Marty_d]

Don't compliment him too much, he may flush.

 

 

[DGL Fox]

I hope they are the deluxe version with a heated seat ...maybe a bit of padding would be nice too..

 

David

 

 

[facthunter]

Are you coming out, David? Nev

 

 

[Bennyboy320]

Unlike most airlines we train our SO's to operate in the right seat as a pilot flying not a jump seat warmer, at times when they've pushed to stick forward below 50ft & attempt to put the landing gear thru the wings or reefed back on the stick & select idle I could of used that airbus mod:yikes: never a dull moment.

 

 

[DGL Fox]

Don't know about coming out Nev but I would certainly wouldn't want to sit on that on the long haul to London

 

David

 

 

[dutchroll]

Unlike most airlines we train our SO's to operate in the right seat as a pilot flying not a jump seat warmer, at times when they've pushed to stick forward below 50ft & attempt to put the landing gear thru the wings or reefed back on the stick & select idle I could of used that airbus mod:yikes: never a dull moment.

Yeah and you can't even see what the other bloke is doing on the sidestick in an Airbus because yours doesn't move in unison! First time your eyes pop out is when the nose abruptly pitches!

 

 

[facthunter]

C'mon Dutch. In that heavy stuff everything goes wrong in slow motion. Trouble is it only comes right in slow motion too. ( and needs lots of grunt, { or height}) Nev

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

"Turkish Airlines’ CEO wants his pilots to get married. Why? Because they then may not be as prone to destructive behavior like that of the Germanwings pilot believed to have intentionally crashed a flight last month."

 

Maybe I should have posted this on the humour forum? Worried about destructive behavior, could also encourage them not to be Moslem....

 

 

[DGL Fox]

Maybe I should have posted this on the humour forum? Worried about destructive behavior, could also encourage them not to be Moslem...

What's being a Muslim got to do with it??? the Germanwings co pilot wasn't a Muslim from what I have read...how can you say that, I don't think any of the aircraft incidents that have happened lately can be blamed on the pilot because he may have been a Muslim...

David