gandalph Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Really, funny you mention that, the story we are told about Martin Bryant and the Port Arthur murders almost all were head shots. Bryant was using a rifle not a pistol. Big difference in the accuracy quotient of those two types of weapon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalph Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 If you can believe that Martin Bryant was the shooter... No. It was Lee Havey Oswald. FFS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 No. It was Lee Havey Oswald.FFS! Baaaa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Bryant was using a rifle not a pistol. Big difference in the accuracy quotient of those two types of weapon. Really? in a confined space at close range? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalph Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Baaaa Nope: Bah! Humbug! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teckair Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I would surprised if there was a vast difference between the two figures. The Easter bunny is not real. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farri Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 What really concerns me is that this "band-aid, zero cost fix" will allow airlines to say "hey we've addressed this and it's no longer a safety issue", while the serious underlying problems of mental health assessment and treatment concerning this accident which are now being exposed day by day, fester without any attention at all - until the next similar occurrence. duch, for what it`s worth, I reckon your heading in the right direction, is it even possible though, to asses someone`s mental health accurately and totally? Frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Ok I can understand going through the skin dazza...what about if the round goes through a window? I don't think that would be the same result as a wall punctured.David Windows were tested as well. No problems apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I have another idea but it would have the Pax peaking. Have a policy of both crew in the cockpit or none. If one wants to go to the loo, the other one leaves the cockpit as well and let George ( auto pilot) fly the plane until they both go back into the cockpit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farri Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Issue solved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gandalph Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Who says the guy that wrote the program for George isn't crazy? Reminds me of that scene from 2001 a space oddessy: Dave: " open the pod bay door HAL." HAL: "I'm sorry Dave, I can't do that." Then there's the question that passengers might ask: If the pilot and his buddy go tripping off to the loo together, what do they get upto behind that locked door up front when they're all alone? Sorry Dutchy, not being serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit12 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 duch, for what it`s worth, I reckon your heading in the right direction, is it even possible though, to asses someone`s mental health accurately and totally?Frank. Nope. Even with computerised systems and mandatory reporting. There is nothing to stop a person giving a false name at a clinic, representing themselves as having any other occupation other than pilot, paying in full in cash to circumvent Medicare and walking out the door having told of their fantasies to cause mass destruction. As long as they were assessed in that moment as not being able or likely to carry out their fantasies, no one would even try to prevent them or follow up. I read elsewhere how his fiance broke off their relationship the day before (caveat - we all know how accurate the beloved media is) and wondered to myself about whether this wasn't a grand stunt to get back at her. A lot more complex than depression and suicide, that's for sure. Seriously, I think commercial aviation has probably some of the best mechanisms of support that I have seen. Think about the appalling treatment of our service men/women with PTSD. I think Dutchy is completely on the right track, all we will see are bandaids to make people feel like "something" has been done, and the very outside risk of this sort of thing will continue to be just that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 At dinner with a bunch of non-flying friends last night I was (as I expected!) asked about this accident. They were rather shocked to hear me guarantee that if I really truly wanted to, and in the absence of another pilot actually sitting strapped into the other pilot's seat at the controls, I could have the aircraft in a terminal dive from which recovery would be impossible within about 30 seconds, and certainly within 60 seconds. It was just an expression of how relatively ineffective the "policy" of having another crew member will be in practice.As has already been stated on this thread, even the built-in extreme attitude protections of the Airbus can be totally overridden with two pushbutton selections. What really concerns me is that this "band-aid, zero cost fix" will allow airlines to say "hey we've addressed this and it's no longer a safety issue", while the serious underlying problems of mental health assessment and treatment concerning this accident which are now being exposed day by day, fester without any attention at all - until the next similar occurrence. I agree with you both - one on one in the cockpit isn't a safe control; there are a hundred ways for one to outsmart the other, and the one doing the outsmarting has control of the timing. I posted this in the thread "Low Flying Penalty" a couple of weeks ago; it was about the gun laws but the principle is the same. "Someone starts the ball rolling and next thing we all have our guns taken off us. In looking back on the last buy back: The career criminals who always bought untraceable guns usually from overseas haven't missed a beat. The two compartment safes required have probably prevented many suicides and family deaths. The people who brought their gun home after fighting for their country with no intent of ever using them probably suffered more post traumatic stress than they needed to. I think there are less guns than before because legal shooting areas have really tightened up, and Police statistics would confirm either way. Murders have continued on, but are often carried out with knives these days. The real key, controlling the people who, unlike almost all of us, who tip over from reality to the point where they can kill someone, still has a way to go. My family doctor at the time told me fixing the problem was easy;if compulsory reporting by GPs was brought in almost all the misfits would be identified and could be dealt with." The DAME/Clinical Psychologist route of identifying a mental problem can be overcome by a clever adult, but according to the GP, they will have left a trail of warning signs right through childhood if they were prone to the type of involuntary depression which allows them to actually cross over the boundary and do the deed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farri Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 One pilot,prepared to take their own life and the lives of everyone on board, out of all the pilots who are in command of the incredible number of flights that occur each day, isn`t really that bad, statistically. Can there ever be a system that will guarantee a completely safe flight without incident? I doubt it, but then, that`s not to say stop trying to find one though. Frank. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdseye Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 The snag is, that despite all of the publicity given to mental health over the past couple of years, there is still a stigma associated with it. Top that with the fear of restricting your career, it's going to mean that many people will do their best to hide any illness. After all, you only have to look at the Type II diabetes situation and CASA. If you were unaware of the problem you get a medical pass, but declare it and you have to jump through hoops to get a medical. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutchroll Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 duch, for what it`s worth, I reckon your heading in the right direction, is it even possible though, to asses someone`s mental health accurately and totally?Frank. Perhaps not, but it's becoming apparent that the signs were all there with this guy. Then he slipped through the holes in the swiss cheese. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farri Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Yes! Well I`ve said it before! If the system is at fault, correct it. Frank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Well I`ll be.........Yeah! Missed that...Thanks Phil... Did a quick Google search and rest assured, I`m told the guys are well trained in using a gun.....Didn't mean that reply to sound "Curt" mate ! . . . but I thought Dutchie's "Lady Cabin Crew member minding the pilot" cockpit scenario was hilarious but had a good point ! I used to be a serious gun enthusiast, even making my own ammunition years ago, but my mind isn't changed re: guns in aircraft cabins much by new bullet design philosophy I'm afraid, and Marty got there first with his "What about inadvertant damage to control circuits" comment . . . Yeah! Originally, I thought that too! Solution???........ No pilot???........Computers already do the flying, anyway. Frank. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bexrbetter Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Not saying there aren't people who can manage a 20 metre headshot Daz, but that's not how enforcement officers are trained. There's been many a case of police shootout's in the one room with multiple shooters and no one getting hit. Wyatt Earp, multiple shootouts, was never hit in his entire life (yes I know guns weren't so great back in the day). duch, for what it`s worth, I reckon your heading in the right direction, is it even possible though, to asses someone`s mental health accurately and totally?Frank. Internet forum, 50 posts minimum and we'll know by then! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Perry Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Not really relevant to this thread, but it's a US advert for guns. . . . . https://www.youtube.com/embed/qKHeXC7L85s?rel=0 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazza 38 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 BREAKING NEWS- all Australian airliners must now have two people in the cockpit at all times as of now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabiru Phil Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Attention everybody, is there a Doctor, sorry Pilot on board, a flight crew member wants a wee. Phil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PA. Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 There's been many a case of police shootout's in the one room with multiple shooters and no one getting hit. Wyatt Earp, multiple shootouts, was never hit in his entire life (yes I know guns weren't so great back in the day). Does not only happen on Earth. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rankamateur Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/29/world/europe/pilot-andreas-lubitz-sought-treatment-for-vision-problems-before-germanwings-crash-authorities-say.html?_r=0 27 years old and you can see the end of your career in sight, and you girlfriend has got over having a pilot for a boyfriend...would be a depressing thought for some young bucks...life just wasn't worth living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kasper Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 If you can believe that Martin Bryant was the shooter... I prefer to believe both that Martin was responsible and that they were mainly head shots - makes it easier for me to believe my friends died rather quickly and without pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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