Recreational Pilot Concerns

[NljbA380]

Hi,

 

First post. Im currently 17 turning 18 in a couple of months. I have a passion for aviation, have had various model aircraft throughout my teenage years, and generally just love hoping into a big metal tube and whizzing past in the sky. Ive been toying with the idea of getting my recreational pilots license for a while, but only know have kind of thought what have i got to loose. THere was a lot holding me back in the past. I guess my main question is how much is involved, theory wise in getting your recreational pilots licence in Australia? How mnay hours should i being putting towards it per a week (maximum)? I raise this question because im currently in my last year of schooling. It takes a lot of time, and i also work a part time job. Ideally id getting a flying lesson in every three weeks, possibly every fortnight. Which in itself isnt that time consuming. The theory is my major concern. Can anyone elaborate on the difficulty, time and contents of the theory involved? Im planning on timing it such that im ready to take the theory exam, have my medical done, and be ready to solo after im complete exams for school. Around the November, December time frame before i start univeristy. THanks.

 

 

[old man emu]

If you have had a passion for aviation for a while, and you have managed to do a bit above average in your High School studies, then you will not have any overwhelming difficulty in taking on the theory part of learning to fly. Despite its seeming like an awesome task, the amount of theory you need to become a pilot is no more than that required to get your driver's licence.

 

At your age, I would suggest that you spend the rest of this year earning money from you part-time job, then after you have completed your High School finals, book in with a flying school for two or three weeks' solid training. You'll learn pilotage skills much quicker by doing your flying in a block of time, and while you are waiting between lessons, you can work on your theory. In the meantime, put a lot of effort into basic algebra and trigonometry during your Maths lessons. These are the parts of Maths that are directly related to piloting.

 

Old Man Emu

 

 

[Happyflyer]

Firstly, make you year 12 your priority. If your target is solo by the end of the year, your only exam is the pre solo exam which is basically give way rules and airfield markings. If you have a passion for aviation, reading the theory books for an hour or two a week will be a pleasure and more than enough. Target 10 to 12 hours for solo. Most exams are multi choice and conducted in house. If you are after a Recreational Aviation Australia Pilot Certificate, you do not need a medical. Use the flying as your recreation in your last school year.

 

 

[NljbA380]

Thanks for the replys guys! Much appreciated. Im doing fine in school, and would consider my self quite strong in maths and the sciences (physics) its just the score i want requires a fair bit of time commitment (engineering). I thought about doing it at the end of the year in the holidays but wasnt sure how good it would be to cram it all in kind of thing. But over a two or so month break its probably not that bad. Keep in mind i work in retail also so the summer holidays are crazy for me. If i was to do it during the year, how often would you recommend doing it? I usually work once a week on a sunday afternoon for a couple of hours, so id possibly try and squeeze my flying in that sunday morning, so then i can work for the rest of the day, and just take the day of school work completely. That was my plan. Im glad the theory is quite simple though, and im sure ill enjoy the read anyway. Can anyone provide a sample of a question like that found on the recreational pre-solo exam? And also, id be training out of a uncontrolled airspace. If i was to then go flying at a different airport, say Morabbin, is there a strong learning curve in dealing with ATC, or is the whole recreational pilots liscence requirment that you only fly within the area you trained in? (I remeber reading that somewhere but not sure if its true)

 

 

[ayavner]

in case you haven't seen it - https://www.raa.asn.au/learn-to-fly/ gives the basics, have a browse. You wouldn't be able to fly out of Moorabbin or other controlled airports with only the recreational cert. Lots of threads on here about that.

 

i wouldn't say the theory is "simple", but certainly achievable by almost anyone with a passion for it. I think a couple of lessons first would be great, as the theory really comes to life when you can relate it to something you saw or felt or did. But resist the temptation to just think this is something you are going to knock out when you have the time. It becomes a way of life, there'll ALWAYS be something to learn or a test to prepare for - so think of it as a long term lifestyle... yes you can get it done more or less quickly but don't make that the point :) You won't be less of a pilot if it takes you 2 years vs. 1 year.. its for LIFE!

 

A sample question for the pre-solo might be something like - who has to give right of way in a given scenario. Or, what do such and such runway markings mean. They aren't difficult, or even really focused on aeronautical knowledge - your first solo will just be a circuit or 3 around the aerodrome, so they just need to know you have the "rules of the road" down so to speak. The finer points build on that and come later.

 

how often? as often as you can. Lots of memory and motor skills, which get lost after too much time - then you spend half of the next lesson (and $$) trying to get back to where you left off. that may not be feasible now, as happyflyer said, make year 12 your priority - do that right, and most everything else falls into place after that (well, more so than if you don't...).

 

welcome to the forum btw!

 

 

[Jaba-who]

I can't agree more with everyone. Make your year 12 studies a priority. And remember that a good education and a good job will mean you can afford to take on aviation in whatever manner you choose. No good job - say goodbye to flying because along will come wife, family, mortgages etc and youll end up doing what most of us had to do - wait till all those things are done. Even if a career in aviation is where you are heading you still need that good education to get you there.

 

As for how hard is the study?

 

You will find most of it is easy with enough input. You will find some difficult to understand when it's put in a certain way and easy when the wording suits your way of thinking. When something seems hard (whether it's bookwork or actual flying) remember that every one of your flying comrades has got through it. So it can't be that hard.

 

Find the ( without trying to sound derogatory) dumbest, slowest pilot you know who has a licence/certificate and remind yourself that if he can work this out then so can you!

 

 

[ayavner]

Find the ( without trying to sound derogatory) dumbest, slowest pilot you know who has a licence/certificate and remind yourself that if he can work this out then so can you!

That would be me!

 

 

[NljbA380]

I defiantly have a passion for it. And its my dream, to get a good job so i can fund my flying, eventually working towards IFR ratings, etc. And one day, maybe my own plane ;) Im booked in for another introductory flight on saturday to have a chat and obviously go up for a fly. Im not too concerned about school getting in the way. Im currently doing well at it, and taking a lesson once every three weeks before work isnt going to be to demanding or take to much time. In terms of theory, i can always find time throughout the day such as on the bus and at break at school to complete some of it. After all, if you enjoy learning it and have a passion for it, it isnt really studying/work is it! Worst comes to worst, during exam time if it gets to demanding i can just call it off temporary. Im hoping to get a majority of the hours out of the way during the 2 to 3 month summer holidays i have before i start (hopefully) university. I think its full steam ahead! Cant wait until Saturday! Thanks guys for all the advice, glad to be part of the forums!

 

 

[ayavner]

that's the spirit! let us know how it goes!

 

 

[NljbA380]

Hahaha, thanks.

 

Ive been having a look on the forums and i see two different licences like the forum title below. Would someone be able to elaborate?

 

RA-Aus RPC to CASA RPL

 

 

[Yenn]

I never did the RAAus theory, already having a PPL, so I don't know exactly what is involved, but I would assume if anyone has a passion for flying they would study every book or magazine they could lay their hands on.

 

If you have done that the theory shouldn't be too hard, but I would consider it harder than a drivers licence theory.

 

Have a good look at the RAAus web site and talk to training organisations where you are likely to fly. If you are going for engineering as a job, you will have adequate maths skills for flying.

 

 

[ayavner]

I think you'll find if you read thru that thread, it has a fair amount of info.

 

in a nutshell - RAAus is the adminstrative body for issuing the RAAus certs, which restrict you to a 2 seat, single engine plane less than 600 kg, and no access to controlled airspace, and on the RAAus registry. wtih the proper endorsements, that still allows you 1 passenger and access to 95% of the country. CASA adminsters general aviation (GA) and issues the RPL, which is a step on the way to the Private Pilot Licence. It allows more or less the same, but in a VH- registered plane up to 1500 kg, and allows access into controlled airspace.

 

They are roughly equivalent, but separate. The skills and terminology are (mostly) the same and if you have one, you can easily transfer to get the other (options!)

 

 

[Marty_d]

I think you'll find if you read thru that thread, it has a fair amount of info.in a nutshell - RAAus is the adminstrative body for issuing the RAAus certs, which restrict you to a 2 seat, single engine plane less than 600 kg, and no access to controlled airspace, and on the RAAus registry. wtih the proper endorsements, that still allows you 1 passenger and access to 95% of the country. CASA adminsters general aviation (GA) and issues the RPL, which is a step on the way to the Private Pilot Licence. It allows more or less the same, but in a VH- registered plane up to 1500 kg, and allows access into controlled airspace.

 

They are roughly equivalent, but separate. The skills and terminology are (mostly) the same and if you have one, you can easily transfer to get the other (options!)

I'm finding this thread useful too, as I haven't yet thought about training/licensing until I get the plane near completion, which ain't yet.

 

Question for those in the know; I got my restricted pilot's licence about 22 years ago. Haven't flown anything (as PIC) in the last 15-17 odd years. Does this previous training still count for anything, or do I do the full course to get an RA-AUS certificate? (Obviously it'd be useful to do the full training anyway as any prior skills would be very rusty!)

 

 

[NljbA380]

I think you'll find if you read thru that thread, it has a fair amount of info.in a nutshell - RAAus is the adminstrative body for issuing the RAAus certs, which restrict you to a 2 seat, single engine plane less than 600 kg, and no access to controlled airspace, and on the RAAus registry. wtih the proper endorsements, that still allows you 1 passenger and access to 95% of the country. CASA adminsters general aviation (GA) and issues the RPL, which is a step on the way to the Private Pilot Licence. It allows more or less the same, but in a VH- registered plane up to 1500 kg, and allows access into controlled airspace.

 

They are roughly equivalent, but separate. The skills and terminology are (mostly) the same and if you have one, you can easily transfer to get the other (options!)

Ahhh ok. Make sense now. That would make sense why there only offering the CASA RPL at my school because the smallest they have is a cessna 172 sp, which is obvs a four seater. Is there much difference in price between the two? My original plan is to get the CASA version, which i would need a medical assessment for wouldnt I? Am i allowed to then fly into controlled airspace (such as morab)? Ill have to ask if they offer the RAAus on Saturday.

 

Edit: Had a look on the website and doesnt look like the airport i train at is on there (in terms of the actual school).

 

 

[pmccarthy]

I'm finding this thread useful too, as I haven't yet thought about training/licensing until I get the plane near completion, which ain't yet.Question for those in the know; I got my restricted pilot's licence about 22 years ago. Haven't flown anything (as PIC) in the last 15-17 odd years. Does this previous training still count for anything, or do I do the full course to get an RA-AUS certificate? (Obviously it'd be useful to do the full training anyway as any prior skills would be very rusty!)

Marty,

It is my understanding that your restricted license is still valid and you just have to do a medical for it to be current. With that, five hours or so of training would get you an RAA certificate. Then you need to do the nav theory and practice . Or, skipping RA, do the nav stuff in GA, just finishing what you started back then.

 

 

[recflyer]

Hi,First post. Im currently 17 turning 18 in a couple of months. I have a passion for aviation, have had various model aircraft throughout my teenage years, and generally just love hoping into a big metal tube and whizzing past in the sky. Ive been toying with the idea of getting my recreational pilots license for a while, but only know have kind of thought what have i got to loose. THere was a lot holding me back in the past. I guess my main question is how much is involved, theory wise in getting your recreational pilots licence in Australia? How mnay hours should i being putting towards it per a week (maximum)? I raise this question because im currently in my last year of schooling. It takes a lot of time, and i also work a part time job. Ideally id getting a flying lesson in every three weeks, possibly every fortnight. Which in itself isnt that time consuming. The theory is my major concern. Can anyone elaborate on the difficulty, time and contents of the theory involved? Im planning on timing it such that im ready to take the theory exam, have my medical done, and be ready to solo after im complete exams for school. Around the November, December time frame before i start univeristy. THanks.

Well done for getting started! You are certainly in the right place for asking advice. Best of luck with your flying!

 

 

[Jay_1984]

I'm finding this thread useful too, as I haven't yet thought about training/licensing until I get the plane near completion, which ain't yet.Question for those in the know; I got my restricted pilot's licence about 22 years ago. Haven't flown anything (as PIC) in the last 15-17 odd years. Does this previous training still count for anything, or do I do the full course to get an RA-AUS certificate? (Obviously it'd be useful to do the full training anyway as any prior skills would be very rusty!)

Hey,

 

Last year after the Part 61 regulations came into effect, the GFPT (which itself kinda replaced the restricted licence) became obsolete. It was replaced by the Recreational pilots licence.

 

I completed my GFPT in 2010 and was working on PPL when life got in the way. I started up last year and was able to exercise my GFPT up until September when part 61 came into effect. If I wanted to continue at GFPT level would have needed to conduct a flight test and pass my RPL. As I was nearly finished with PPL I didn't bother.

 

If you wanted to get back into flying GA I would suggest talking to your flight school and working out a custom plan. After my absence I had a flight with the CFI to see where my skills were at then we went from there. I would gather the same would be for the RA path.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

[Jay_1984]

Hi,First post. Im currently 17 turning 18 in a couple of months. I have a passion for aviation, have had various model aircraft throughout my teenage years, and generally just love hoping into a big metal tube and whizzing past in the sky. Ive been toying with the idea of getting my recreational pilots license for a while, but only know have kind of thought what have i got to loose. THere was a lot holding me back in the past. I guess my main question is how much is involved, theory wise in getting your recreational pilots licence in Australia? How mnay hours should i being putting towards it per a week (maximum)? I raise this question because im currently in my last year of schooling. It takes a lot of time, and i also work a part time job. Ideally id getting a flying lesson in every three weeks, possibly every fortnight. Which in itself isnt that time consuming. The theory is my major concern. Can anyone elaborate on the difficulty, time and contents of the theory involved? Im planning on timing it such that im ready to take the theory exam, have my medical done, and be ready to solo after im complete exams for school. Around the November, December time frame before i start univeristy. THanks.

I would second all the advice given here in regards to focussing on school and !along it a priority.

 

Also when it comes time to budgeting for training and making time, for initial stages try to aim for a lesson a week at least. A lot of flying is learnt by repetition and having long gaps between lessons kinda breaks the flow. That being said, try to save up for a few weeks worth of lessons prior to actually starting then try to keep a surplus of funds going for lessons.

 

By some of you comments I gather you're in Melbourne? Happy to help in regards to schools around here.

 

 

[Kununurra]

Well done on researching all of your options before you jump into the deep end. That shows maturity and a desire to succeed.

 

There is also nothing wrong in going to a couple of different schools (if they are available) and doing a TIF.

 

That will also give you a look at their aircraft, instructors and how they operate. It all counts as flying.

 

Cheers

 

 

[NljbA380]

Thanks for all the feed back guys. Deffs keeping year 12 a priority! Just keep second guessing about go ahead with it all. Just generally speaking, im looking at flying out of latrobe, and saw on their website that there a scholarship opportunities. Generally speaking, how often are these given out, to what amounts, etc? Does a young kid like me have a chance of scoring one. This is a major point of second guessing it all. While my family is paying for a majority of it, ive agreed to chip in 1-2000 dollars to help. Which is a considerable amount considering i also ahve to put money towards a car and pay for fuel, etc.

 

 

[coljones]

Thanks for all the feed back guys. Deffs keeping year 12 a priority! Just keep second guessing about go ahead with it all. Just generally speaking, im looking at flying out of latrobe, and saw on their website that there a scholarship opportunities. Generally speaking, how often are these given out, to what amounts, etc? Does a young kid like me have a chance of scoring one. This is a major point of second guessing it all. While my family is paying for a majority of it, ive agreed to chip in 1-2000 dollars to help. Which is a considerable amount considering i also ahve to put money towards a car and pay for fuel, etc.

RAA has scholarships as does the federation of AeroClubs. Check with an RAA Flying School or https://www.raa.asn.au/gyfts/ you local aero club or http://rfaca.com.au/learn-to-fly-scholarship/

Do you need a car? trains and pushbikes will save you lots of money - even a cheap postie big will deliver value for money.

 

Keep well

 

 

[Diddy Pilot]

Marty,It is my understanding that your restricted license is still valid and you just have to do a medical for it to be current. With that, five hours or so of training would get you an RAA certificate. Then you need to do the nav theory and practice . Or, skipping RA, do the nav stuff in GA, just finishing what you started back then.

Whilst the above is technically correct.

 

Any good CFI should ensure that your theory/knowledge is up to date and of the standard he/she would accept of any other student. Afterall we all forget things over time and new legislation exists (including the rights and obligations of a RA Aus Pilot Certificate, Human Factors was not a requirement back then but is a separate exam nowadays ).

 

Reading the ATSB report into the Ferris Wheel accident at Old Bar, there was criticism of the pilot on the day and the FTF who signed off on his pilot certificate. The pilot had previously completed GFPT about 20 years previous and had not flown for a significant amount of time (sorry don't recall details). Investigations showed that the FTF took this prior experience at face value but did not re-affirm current competency (though obviously the physical act of flying was conducted, ie the quoted approx five hours of cross over training, which is much more suited to a currently flying GA pilot), this was shown up in some of the pilots decisions on the day and not recalling how to conduct a precautionary search and landing.

 

I am sure Marty will remember more than he has lost, and has a good aeronautical knowledge (building his own aircraft requires research and strong contributor on this website) however we should all err on the side of caution and ensure that we don't underestimate the benefit of additional revision training.

 

Much better to do a little extra training down here than try to guess the right answer when up there.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Whilst the above is technically correct.Any good CFI should ensure that your theory/knowledge is up to date and of the standard he/she would accept of any other student. Afterall we all forget things over time and new legislation exists (including the rights and obligations of a RA Aus Pilot Certificate, Human Factors was not a requirement back then but is a separate exam nowadays ).

 

Reading the ATSB report into the Ferris Wheel accident at Old Bar, there was criticism of the pilot on the day and the FTF who signed off on his pilot certificate. The pilot had previously completed GFPT about 20 years previous and had not flown for a significant amount of time (sorry don't recall details). Investigations showed that the FTF took this prior experience at face value but did not re-affirm current competency (though obviously the physical act of flying was conducted, ie the quoted approx five hours of cross over training, which is much more suited to a currently flying GA pilot), this was shown up in some of the pilots decisions on the day and not recalling how to conduct a precautionary search and landing.

 

I am sure Marty will remember more than he has lost, and has a good aeronautical knowledge (building his own aircraft requires research and strong contributor on this website) however we should all err on the side of caution and ensure that we don't underestimate the benefit of additional revision training.

 

Much better to do a little extra training down here than try to guess the right answer when up there.

Thanks Diddy, although I can't remember if I've forgotten more than I remembered.

 

 

[NljbA380]

Had my first lesson today! Now ive got forms to fill out and logged my first hour in a Cessna 172. Covered a bit of everything, mainly focusing on keeping level flight, trimming it and getting a feel for it all! Crazy pushing the throttle all the way in, pull straight back, flaps 30 degrees and just climbing at 40 odd knots! Loved it! Planning on getting lessons every 3 weeks. Hardest thing was taxing with the whole rudder and rocking the foot for the brake. Zig zagging down the runway, haha. Thanks for all the advice guys.

 

 

[Nightmare]

Hi,First post. Im currently 17 turning 18 in a couple of months. I have a passion for aviation, have had various model aircraft throughout my teenage years, and generally just love hoping into a big metal tube and whizzing past in the sky. Ive been toying with the idea of getting my recreational pilots license for a while, but only know have kind of thought what have i got to loose. THere was a lot holding me back in the past. I guess my main question is how much is involved, theory wise in getting your recreational pilots licence in Australia? How mnay hours should i being putting towards it per a week (maximum)? I raise this question because im currently in my last year of schooling. It takes a lot of time, and i also work a part time job. Ideally id getting a flying lesson in every three weeks, possibly every fortnight. Which in itself isnt that time consuming. The theory is my major concern. Can anyone elaborate on the difficulty, time and contents of the theory involved? Im planning on timing it such that im ready to take the theory exam, have my medical done, and be ready to solo after im complete exams for school. Around the November, December time frame before i start univeristy. THanks.

A friend of mine actually scored a scholarship in aviation, about 20 years ago, and was offered lessons at $17.50 an hour!!! Still good value back then! And he quit before he got his PPL!! He regrets it now.

 

I think two weeks between lessons should be the longest as you may start forgetting the previous lesson with a greater time between them... besides, I think you'll get the withdrawals after about a week... I know I do.

 

Well done on taking your first flight, it's awesome isn't it?

 

All the best, Tony