Light Aircraft down near Camden

[Marty_d]

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For the sake of clarity I have done what AMSOL suggested looked up the NTSB database and READ the summaries. I thought it might help to append the NTSB summaries of probable cause for those fatal accidents he listed. It is interesting to note that although the aircraft listed in these incidents were all fitted with Jabiru engines only two airframes were Jabirus. EDIT N.B I've attached the summaries inside Amsol's quoted post so you'll need to expand his quote to see them. Probably a messy way to do it but... couldn't figure out an easier method. Sorry.

 

To summarise the incidents that AMSOL posted:

 

1. Failed to maintain airspeed during a go around. Non Jab Airframe

 

2. Ejected from aircraft after canopy opened in flight. Non Jab airframe

 

3. Collided with a Turkey Vulture in flight. Non Jab airframe.

 

4. Stall& spin from low altitude. Jab airframe.

 

5. Rapid descent and impact with terrain following undetermined engine failure. Non Jab airframe.

 

6. Low altitude aerodynamic stall. Non Jab Airframe.

 

7. Low altitude stall following cardiac event. Non Jab Airframe.

 

8. Engine failure - Cause undetermined. Non Jab airframe.

 

9. Carb Icing - Failure to apply carb heat. JAB airframe.

 

10. Aerodynamic stall while maneuvering at low altitude. Non Jab airframe.

 

11. Aerodynamic stall. Contributing to the accident was the loss of engine power due to a clogged fuel screen. Non Jab airframe.

 

12. In-flight separation of both wings due to aileron flutter. Non Jab airframe.

 

13. Failure to maintain aircraft control during initial climb following a loss of engine power. The reason for the power loss was not determined. Non Jab airframe.

 

14. In-flight failure of both wings due to aileron flutter. Non Jab airframe.

 

15. Pilot's failure to maintain aircraft control while maneuvering. Non Jab airframe.

 

16. Both pilots failure to maintain adequate airspeed while maneuvering after a loss of engine power for undetermined reasons, which resulted in an aerodynamic stall. Non Jab airframe.

 

17. Structural failure of the wings for undetermined reasons. Non Jab airframe.

 

With respect Amsol, the devil is often in the detail. Simply searching "Jabiru" in the database and then cutting and pasting the results that show fatalities caused you to be misled and to then mislead readers here. It happens sometimes.

12, 14, 15 and 17 are all Zenith 601's. There was a mainspar issue that required all affected aircraft to be modified, IIRC.

 

 

[Downunder]

12, 14, 15 and 17 are all Zenith 601's. There was a mainspar issue that required all affected aircraft to be modified, IIRC.

Yeah, pretty horrific. Zenith came out with the "B" model but don't think they ever admitted structural issues in the crashes.

I think Spain had a couple of fatals too

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

As for the route, i can't really understand why they are there unless they needed most direct for fuel but the possibly would have needed a stop along the way. the route along the freeway is pretty healthy once at Goulborn hang a bit of right to Wagga

 

 

[alf jessup]

Na, gandalph,

 

:whisper:there are 44,000 more 912's produced than the Jab, I'm sure there are plenty out there:stirrer:

 

 

[gandalph]

I know, Alf. Just messing with folk about the dangers of not fully unpacking the stats.

 

 

[gandalph]

Oops! Just realized I spelled Asmol's nickname wrong. Sorry. No disrespect intended Asmol.

 

 

[alf jessup]

I know, Alf. Just messing with folk about the dangers of not fully unpacking the stats.

I was just messing too mate

 

 

[Oscar]

As for the route, i can't really understand why they are there unless they needed most direct for fuel but the possibly would have needed a stop along the way. the route along the freeway is pretty healthy once at Goulborn hang a bit of right to Wagga

J160 has 135 litres of fuel, everything topped-off; claims 8.5 hours endurance with nil reserve, there was only a bit over 4.5 hours of daylight left, so fuel should not have been an issue (unless they took off with the deliberate plan of extracting maximum distance from minimum fuel..) The general track you suggest is far more sensible and safe than flying the rhumb line, but might add maybe 20-30 minutes to the trip which I still calculate would NOT have had them at any 'Melbourne' strip by EOD.

 

 

[Camel]

I believe aircraft departure point will surprise, I can't confirm.

 

 

[Roscoe]

I believe aircraft departure point will surprise, I can't confirm.

Everything ive seen on this forum so far, suggests a yscn departure for somewhere in Melb.

 

 

[deadstick]

What are the co-ordinates for the crash site?

 

 

[Oscar]

Not so far given; the media reports suggest Camden as the departure site but by drawing a rhumb line to Lilydale/Coldstream directly through the upper end of the Nattai, the Oaks would be the more logical departure point to end up in the Nattai near the Burragorang Road if climbing out on path. I was in Camden at 1100 that day and it was clear skies there, with cloud south.

 

A member of my family who used to commute daily by Auster from Mittagong to Bankstown for a number of years and knows that area extremely well, used later when flying his Cherokee 140 out of Hoxton Park, to traverse the Burrragorang -Taralga route - but NEVER with less than 6,000 feet before he entered the Nattai area. And that's with one of the most reliable piston aero-engines ever built.

 

 

[Ron5335]

It wasn't The Oaks, I was out there all day, and it wasn't until a police car arrived around 1545 to inquire if we had any planes out, that we became aware of it.

 

 

[Ron5335]

And the other bit of info was..... the police officer stated that it was Camden Tower that received the mayday call. So that would put them just passed one of the the reporting points of Camden (The Oaks), and therefore still on Camden's frequency.

 

 

[Roscoe]

And the other bit of info was..... the police officer stated that it was Camden Tower that received the mayday call. So that would put them just passed one of the the reporting points of Camden (The Oaks), and therefore still on Camden's frequency.

So at this stage their is no confirmation that departure was from Camden, he may have just been traversing their Airspace or overflying southbound.

 

 

[Ultralights]

just because they were on camden tower freq, doesnt mean he departed from Camden, i often fly over camden on my way to bankstown, and will monitor the frequency as i approach and fly over. as well as sydney radar when in the area.

 

 

[ayavner]

The two-seater Jabiru ultralight experienced engine failure at 3.15pm, shortly after taking off from Camden Airport. In an extraordinary coincidence, it was the second crash linked to the airport yesterday after a small plane overshot the runway in the morning.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...but NEVER with less than 6,000 feet before he entered the Nattai area...

I try to keep a landable patch under my wing at all times Oscar, but too often near the coast cloud cover stuffs up my plans.

 

 

[shafs64]

I try to keep a landable patch under my wing at all times Oscar, but too often near the coast cloud cover stuffs up my plans.

Dam cloud

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

wonder why they ended up back at Bankstown.

 

 

[Roscoe]

wonder why they ended up back at Bankstown.

The Rescue Helicopters are based there and since the crew were not injured probably decision made to go back to Base where there are plenty of facilities.

 

 

[old man emu]

I'm astounded that it is now Sunday nearly 60 hours since the report was received and the registration number of the airplane was given, that no one has come on here and identified its owner/operator, or if the information was to hand, the name of the pilot. Previous reports of incidents on this site have quickly provided these facts, if only so that people can voice their commiserations. Why, in this case, the information black-out?

 

OME

 

 

[JEM]

Hi all

 

As per page 3 this thread 24-7852 had Melbourne Aviation? written across the fin.

 

 

[gandalph]

OME asked why the information blackout. Could it be that there are recreational aviators out there who don't subscribe to this site?

 

 

[Guest asmol]

That or the fact it is "just another jabiru accident" or the people posting get slammed down for no real reason and lose interest in communicating?