RA BFR Etc

[ben87r]

G'Day all,

 

Quick question, i did my RA Cert back in 2010 ish and since then haven't kept my membership current as i fly GA. Im off to Adelaide for a MECIR renewal, if I was to renew my membership with my GA BFR would that get me RA current again legally or am I missing something? (Quite aware that I would need a flight for personal currency). The old man is going to come for a holiday there and meet me and I would like to take him for a flight but would only be able to hire a twin from where I am doing my renewal by the looks of it as I wont be "single current" in their eyes without doing a "nav" with an instructor.

 

Second question, does any body know if there is a VHreg Jab or similar around AD? as this would obviously eliminate the issue.

 

Cheers

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Ask RAA HQ but I think the answer will be that you renew your membership, which will get you a current pilot certificate, then do the GA AFR which will also serve as the RAA AFR.

 

 

[planesmaker]

I have only done AFR last 2 times, accepted as ra bfr. Tom

 

 

[ben87r]

Thanks for the replays guys. What I'm more trying to work out is if the will accept my current GA one which was 18months ago and if my RA cert being 5 years out of membership would be an issue?

 

 

[ben87r]

Not quite sure what your point was there octave, but we are talking about land aeroplanes,I don't have any float time.

 

 

[octave]

Not quite sure what your point was there octave, but we are talking about land aeroplanes,I don't have any float time.

accidentally and only for about 30 seconds posted in the wrong thread

 

 

[ben87r]

That makes sense! Lol

 

 

[frank marriott]

Ben

 

If it was me in your situation I would ring the current OPS manager. I had a similar thing come up when I first got my RAA certificate [issue date being out of sink with GA lic]. The reply from the "then" OPS manager was he would accept a GA AFR if it was done in a C172 or similar size aircraft but not a twin or an instrument renewal. Worth a phone call as I get the feeling the policy changes with person to person.

 

 

[ben87r]

Cheers Frank. Yea last BFR was in a twin and haven't flown anything smaller then the 210 since. I'll call them Monday.

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

Worth a phone call as I get the feeling the policy changes with person to person.

Or try the Ops manual ;-)

" an aeroplane flight review (AFR) conducted in a single engine aeroplane with a MTOW less than 1500KG, is accepted as meeting the requirements of paragraph 5.f."

 

Yea last BFR was in a twin and haven't flown anything smaller then the 210 since.

So that would be a "no" then I guess

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[poteroo]

BenIf it was me in your situation I would ring the current OPS manager. I had a similar thing come up when I first got my RAA certificate [issue date being out of sink with GA lic]. The reply from the "then" OPS manager was he would accept a GA AFR if it was done in a C172 or similar size aircraft but not a twin or an instrument renewal. Worth a phone call as I get the feeling the policy changes with person to person.

Frank is correct . For acceptance of a GA FR, it should be in a similar type, eg, fixed pitch, and generally lightweight <1000kgs MTOW. And, it should be a review, not a test or check for some other purpose such as a formation endo, a t/w endo. happy days,

 

 

[ben87r]

Cheers Crezzi/Pots.

 

Both points there rule it out as also wasn't a review but, my initial IR. I knew it wouldn't be as easy as I was thinking.

 

Looks like I might be up for a twin to beat around VFR coastal. :/

 

 

[REastwood]

The Operations manual stipulates that a GA Flight review conducted in an aircraft with 1500kg MTOW or less is acceptable for a RA-Aus flight review. The CASR's stipulate that a AFR, Check, test etc. is a Flight Review. There is no distinction in the RA-Aus Ops manual or the CASA rules between a Check, Test or AFR being a Flight Review. HOWEVER - the Operations Team at RA-Aus like to enforce their "Policy" which has no basis in the rules. So it can be a bit of hit and miss as to what they will accept on the day.

 

 

[poteroo]

The Operations manual stipulates that a GA Flight review conducted in an aircraft with 1500kg MTOW or less is acceptable for a RA-Aus flight review. The CASR's stipulate that a AFR, Check, test etc. is a Flight Review. There is no distinction in the RA-Aus Ops manual or the CASA rules between a Check, Test or AFR being a Flight Review. HOWEVER - the Operations Team at RA-Aus like to enforce their "Policy" which has no basis in the rules. So it can be a bit of hit and miss as to what they will accept on the day.

I think you'll find that the Regs wording is may be acceptable. Yes, it does give the checking instructor some room as to whether they consider the flying done really does meet the requirements of a FR. It's a stretch to say that a t/w endo or a formation endo really meets the intention of a FR. AFIK, there is no 'policy' toward this within RAAus Ops. happy days,

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

Operations Manual 7 states that the following CASA Endorsements are accepted for an RAAus BFR

 

(i) CSU propeller,

 

(ii) Tail wheel undercarriage,

 

(iii) Retractable undercarriage,

 

(iv) Float alighting gear,

 

(v) Floating hull,

 

(vi) Controlled airspace

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[djpacro]

I think you'll find that the Regs wording is may be acceptable. Yes, it does give the checking instructor some room as to whether they consider the flying done really does meet the requirements of a FR. It's a stretch to say that a t/w endo or a formation endo really meets the intention of a FR.

The reg couldn't be clearer. eg:

... the holder is taken to have successfully completed a flight review for the rating if the holder: ...© completes flight training for a design feature endorsement in an aircraft of the class covered by the type rating; or ...

Formation endorsement is not included but the instructor does not get a say at all wrt tailwheel endorsements etc.

[poteroo]

Formation endorsement is not included but the instructor does not get a say at all wrt tailwheel endorsements etc.

I'd agree that the GA instructor doesn't have any 'say' - but only because he/she doesn't know that the pilot is going to use that endo as a BFR under RAAus. CSU for a BFR - what a joke! happy days,

 

 

[facthunter]

Almost any air training time could be "used" for a BFR or such IF the person signing it off knows it will be also a BFR.and makes the extra overall observations. Don't forget, not long ago the pilot didn't even HAVE to FLY the plane (at the time) to be signed off .

 

Now it's a major deal, and perhaps growing fast.

 

I am for maintaining standards. Any instructor worthy of the title can quickly assess most pilots ability generally. Doing a circuit and managing a nice landing isn't enough though.

 

A CSU endorsement should cover propeller safety speed, amongst other things. I doubt many of them do it properly if the general knowledge I have noticed about in flight variable pitch propellers is normal. Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

Ihave just organised my AFR for GA. Cab't do it in the plane I fly all the time as it doesn't have dual controls, so have to hire a C172. That is going to cost nearly as much as a one way Qantas ticket to the UK. Just glad that it is every 2 years instead of annually. I am told there has to be a nav exercise as part of it.

 

 

[ben87r]

Ihave just organised my AFR for GA. Cab't do it in the plane I fly all the time as it doesn't have dual controls, so have to hire a C172. That is going to cost nearly as much as a one way Qantas ticket to the UK. Just glad that it is every 2 years instead of annually. I am told there has to be a nav exercise as part of it.

My renewal would be return with a weeks accom in London and a £100 bar tab!! Fingers crossed I won't have to pay for it again tho. And on top of all that I've got flights from the Kimberley AD return and accom whilst there. :(

 

 

[poteroo]

Ihave just organised my AFR for GA. Cab't do it in the plane I fly all the time as it doesn't have dual controls, so have to hire a C172. That is going to cost nearly as much as a one way Qantas ticket to the UK. Just glad that it is every 2 years instead of annually. I am told there has to be a nav exercise as part of it.

Why not find a CFI who will do it as a single seat BFR? I'd certainly consider that option. happy days,

 

 

[Roundsounds]

Worth reading the CAAP regarding flight reviews, then you'll be better prepared for the exercise. Some schools see flight reviews as an opportunity to either empty your wallet or display their total lack of knowledge of the purpose of one. This CAAP was written prior to Part 61, but is still current and if CASA intend any changes to the content of a review they need to re-issue the CAAP.

 

http://casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/download/caaps/ops/5_81_1.pdf

 

 

[poteroo]

CAAP was written prior to Part 61, but is still current and if CASA intend any changes to the content of a review they need to re-issue the CAAP

CASA still haven't been able to explain their intent in CASR Part 61 - so we'll be waiting for some time before they get around to a revised CAAP for Flight Reviews. happy days,

 

 

[ben87r]

Speaking of part 61, CASA are back up this way next month to try (again) and explain their intent... Would have thought 7 sets of documents would have done that.

 

 

[poteroo]

Speaking of part 61, CASA are back up this way next month to try (again) and explain their intent... Would have thought 7 sets of documents would have done that.

The best career enhancing policy is to create a demand for an explanation of the changes you've just made, to a regulation which itself was unnecessary, because the US model would have fitted Australia well in the first instance. CASA are past masters of this bureaucratic artform.