Norm Sanders Sport Pilot Letter

[Bruce Tuncks]

Would anybody who knows Norm Sanders please pass on my thanks for his letter in the magazine.

 

I have a theory about why these things ( eg ramp checks for recreational pilots) are happening at this time in history:

 

The deeper thinkers among the old guys who fought in WW2 would have said that they were fighting for freedom from the sort of society where you could be assaulted by officials ( that is, accosted by officials who are backed up by the police and all of government) when going about your private business. While they were influential these old guys helped stop this sort of rot.

 

Alas those guys have passed on. But thank you Norm for not giving in quietly.

 

...Bruce

 

 

[Yenn]

Norm Sanders says he didn't attend the evans head fly in because of the heavy handedness of CASA.

 

The Editor says that there were no ramp checks there and the CEO says that there were ramp checks at Avalon but everyone was compliant.

 

So what is the problem. Is Norm afraid that he will be ramp cheked and will fail? If Norm is a Senator as he says, he has a much better chance of getting bad laws repealed and new laws looked at than we do, but it appears to me that he is just happy to beat his own gong, regardless of what is really happening.

 

 

[rankamateur]

If Norm is a Senator as he says, he has a much better chance of getting bad laws repealed and new laws looked at than we do, but it appears to me that he is just happy to beat his own gong, regardless of what is really happening.

Former senator?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norm_Sanders

 

may have the same chance as you Yenn. But he may not have as good a go at ripping a log with a chainsaw!

 

 

[Downunder]

Lived a great life by the looks......good on him!

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Maybe it is just the arrogant attitude of those conducting the ramp check.

 

 

[cscotthendry]

I talked to a few people at the GEFL and there were a few grumbles about the CASA reps there, but I thought Norm's rant was a bit OTT.

 

I do agree with his point that the thought of possibly being ramp checked at the end of a long flight was enough to deter me from going to NATFLY. Also, there have been a couple of other fly ins where I was told that attendance was down and in the same breath was told that CASA had attended the year before and done ramp checks.

 

 

[frank marriott]

I attended Thangool fly-in last year - expected their appearance and sure enough they were there doing their thing. I didn't speak to them or hear of any problems, but certainly a disincentive to attend these events. It is like a show of strength and we don't trust you clowns.

 

We all know you are liable to a ramp check at any time, and I have no problem with that, but to attend somewhere where you know (or expect) the inconvenience to be occurring must have some negative result.

 

I have operated out of class C (by different names) since my student days and have never had the displeasure but to expect ramp checks at every fly-in is over the top, at least to my way of thinking.

 

One could be forgiven for believing it is more about getting travelling allowance expenses then "safety".

 

 

[dazza 38]

I don't think people are avoiding flying into flyins because they are not doing the right thing.

 

It's more the case of they don't want to get dicked around by crasha. It's a bit of a joke really, I mean you don't see police pulling cars over after a trip checking to see if the driver is carrying maps.

 

If a pilot manages to get him or herself to a flyin 400 nm away in one piece from their departure point, who gives a toss how he/she worked out how to navigate to there.

 

 

[Camel]

A similar thing to a ramp check at a fly in is like the police setting up vehicle inspections at a Hot Rod show and issueing Defect notices. There is no way I will attend any event whilst it is being treated as a way of victimising participants, I won't give them the privilidge. The reason Natfly was not being attended is because CASA was trying to show they were in charge and there is no way I will support this attitude and to make it perfectly clear CASA COULD NOT RUN A CHOOK RAFFLE ! . CASA is a disgrace. The new director better fix it soon as time is running out !

 

 

[cscotthendry]

I think the new management are trying to fix this. If you missed the Clifton fly in, then you wouldn't have heard them say that they have "liased" with CASA over this and have proposed that RAA look after the RAA pilots. So it's likely that if there are ramp checks being done at our fly ins, it will be RAA reps doing them. That said, it's possible that the RAA boys and girls may be even stricter in an attempt to prove themselves to CASA.

 

 

[Camel]

A similar thing to a ramp check at a fly in is like the police setting up vehicle inspections at a Hot Rod show and issueing Defect notices. There is no way I will attend any event whilst it is being treated as a way of victimising participants, I won't give them the privilidge. The reason Natfly was not being attended is because CASA was trying to show they were in charge and there is no way I will support this attitude and to make it perfectly clear CASA COULD NOT RUN A CHOOK RAFFLE ! . CASA is a disgrace. The new director better fix it soon as time is running out !

The right thing to do is at a Hot Rod show, send your best vehicle technical advisors and answer questions to help people on how to build legal safe machines and in aviation have a CASA stand where people can get advice and recommendations from CASA technical people on how to satisfy legal and safety requirements, but CASA are too incapable for this sort of action, they want to show how important they are, look at what the imbeciles have done to Jabiru ! They have done un-repairable damage, there is nothing nice to say about CASA absolutely nothing !

 

 

[cscotthendry]

The problem lies in CASA's remit. They are strictly a "safety" organisation and we all know that the only sure way to stop airplanes from crashing is to stop them from flying.

 

Compare that with the FAA in the US, whose remit partly includes promoting aviation.

 

What is needed here is to separate the "safety" organisation from the regulatory bureaucracy. While ever our safety organisation is also the regulator, then they will naturally be heavy handed in their attempts to impose a "safe" flying (read non-flying) aviation industry.

 

 

[440032]

CASA's own literature for GA pilots is now stale - dated Dec 2013. There is no such thing as CAR 5.... now.

 

http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD::pc=PC_101862

 

and then, some of the things they claim are not actually required to be present or shown by the regs! No wonder people are scared of a check going bad.

 

RA-Aus are the authorised administrator of their activities, so they, if anyone, are the ones who should be doing any checks at their fly-ins. Then, at the end of the day, they pop over to see the CASA rep, give them a report on how many ticks and crosses on the clipboard, and later, their plan to address any areas of concern found. Simple, no fuss, everyone wins, simple chain-of command : Member - RA-Aus - CASA. And the same chain going downwards.

 

 

[turboplanner]

By comparison, if you enter your car for a speedway meeting, it gets a 100% check by the machine examiner - and that can be more thorough than a roadworthy. Every other Class on the day gets check by their Machine Examiner, and that can add up to 150 cars on the day.

 

So be thankful CASA only does random checks.

 

 

[shags_j]

There is a cancer in the Australian psyche that has been slowly growing over the past 20 or so years but has well and truly flourished in the last 13.

 

Australia is fast becoming one of the least "free" countries in the world from a liberty standpoint. Something happens and everyone loses their shit until the government legislates against it, then the following week another issue requires legislation. I feel ramp checks are an ongoing sympton of this (also as far as we are concerned, asics, medicals etc).

 

People are losing it over terrorism at the moment. Therefore the government can say "hey look, we are making sure everything is ok by checking all these ultralights so they will not be used against you..." garbage.

 

I hope my point is clear. It sickens me to watch the amount of garbage that is being legislated and overenforced in this country. I truly believe that we are the least free country in the western world and will soon rival China and other eastern nations if we keep on this path.

 

Of course Australians being Australians seem to be "meh whatever. Doesn't really effect me" so I expect, certainly in the wider community more than here, that noone will really care.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

The problem with CASA is that if they ground your plane for no good reason or a misinterpretation of the rules, they have a history of not letting it fly again to save face.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Its like the libs new metadata rules. It costs $400M a year to collect and the simplest encryption defeats it.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Its like the libs new metadata rules. It costs $400M a year to collect and the simplest encryption defeats it.

...and this from the government that was going to cut red tape and reduce bureaucracy...

 

 

[dennis45]

And who does the check on the car, not the RTA nor the Highway patrol, it's done by the experts of that sports governing body. Also lets compare apples with apples,

 

at a fly in we have many people all gathering for a social event etc or in the speedway comparison, a race. They do not check all the cars of the people who have come to be entertained. Interesting to note there are two bodies named CASA only one of which is against us being screwed. (Google is your friend)

 

 

[skeptic36]

Are people being punished for failing a ramp check at a social event? I've heard plenty of complaints about the inconvenience, but haven't heard of an actual penalty being given.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Its like the libs new metadata rules. It costs $400M a year to collect and the simplest encryption defeats it.

They've got a special encryption buster just for you FT; good that you are on top of it though.

 

 

[turboplanner]

And who does the check on the car, not the RTA nor the Highway patrol, it's done by the experts of that sports governing body.

Correct, and I've mentioned a few times that in RAA the administration buck stops with the CFI who oversaw the pilot's training. There is provision within the RAA's Incorporation structure to include a Compliance and Enforcement module, and RAA has the power to do that, but has never set it up. If they had then you would have a direct comparison, and CASA would be no more likely to go over their heads than RTA (now RMS) or the Highway Patrol.

The Sporting Shooters Association which may be running events at 50 different locations around Australia on any weekend, and I can assure you they have qualified officials on deck. I was at a centrefire range, and being new, wasn't totally sure of the procedure. When the end of firing time was called, so people could go up and check their targets, I put my rifle down, opened the breach, and walked away from the firing line like everyone else. Suddenly people were recalled back behind the line and I noticed three people looking at my rifle. I was called over and left in no possible doubt that leaving my magazine in the rifle, even though it couldn't fire, would see me in deep trouble. Needless to say I was a model participant after that. They are an Incorporated Association, they have the structure, so can RAA.

 

Also lets compare apples with apples,At a fly in we have many people all gathering for a social event etc or in the speedway comparison, a race. They do not check all the cars of the people who have come to be entertained. (Google is your friend)

The people who fly in are participants in the event, out for the same recreation and cameraderie, and it provides a good opportunity for a safety compliance check.

 

Before each season, all cars are usually thoroughly checked at a convenient location, such as the owner's home. RA pilots don't have that burden.

 

 

[robinsm]

I thought that editor and Raa Aus and others said there were'nt any ramp checks on the day, who is correct and is this an anti CASA rant. What are the facts before emotions run rampant.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Are people being punished for failing a ramp check at a social event? I've heard plenty of complaints about the inconvenience, but haven't heard of an actual penalty being given.

Its not the sort of thing that most people would be broadcasting is it?

 

 

[Chocolate]

Well has anyone got an infringement notice out of a ramp check. .? And for what infringement was it issued. Talk of it has put me off going to flyin but maybe the facts don't bear out the "talk".