Not caught on tape very often.......

[red750]

In most low winged light aircraft you can't see the wheels.

 

 

[facthunter]

With retracts, you have an indicator and a method of emergency extension that also shows the final position of the leg visually. Most airliners have a hole in the floor to view the wheelwell as well. There's usually a way of observing the "lock" is in position. Nev

 

 

[DWF]

No downwind checklist? When I learnt in the 60's, Undercarriage was taught in the downwind check even in fixed gear planes. B-U-M-F-H - Brakes, Undercarriage, Mixture, Flaps & Fuel Pump, Harness & Hatches. Although unnecessary in fixed gear, it ingrained it in your subconscious for when you moved up to retracts.

When I learnt in the 60's I was also taught the BUMFH check, and still use it.

 

However I now teach it as the "Pre-landing Checklist". There are quite a few occasions where a Downwind leg is not flow. If you only do it on Downwind there is a chance it will not get done!

 

This applies for fixed gear aircraft as well as RG's.

 

 

 

Then there is the PUFF check on Final. (A Final leg is [almost?] always flown.)

 

Pitch - full fine (in case of go-around), Undercarriage - down & locked (all green lights on and visual check where possible), Full (or required) Flap, Cowl Flap open (in case of go-around).

 

 

 

In the C177RG I fly there is a mirror by the pitot tube to allow the pilot to visually check the nose gear is down, the pilot can see the left main and the passenger can check the right main.

 

There is also a satisfying "thunk", felt through the rudder pedals, as the nose gear locks down. (Gear down cycle time is 14 seconds which can seem like a very long time sometimes.)

 

So I have NO excuse.

 

 

 

DWF

 

 

[frank marriott]

There's normally plenty of "air" noise when they are down. Over the fence "Greens and clearance" minimum required. You aren't worth the money if you can't put that much effort in. Nev

Whatever system works for the individual is fine, but one must have a system. I use Red Blue Green as a check on final [when everything should have been completed] - even in RAA aircraft never know when you might jump into something different again.

 

 

[facthunter]

Yes adapt it to your operation and aircraft type.. You may have a fire after take off, or have to do a quick go around and return to land, because another aircraft obstructed the runway. etc..Always have a minimum required essential checklist in the back of your mind. I don't believe in NO checklist. Quite the opposite. Nev

 

 

[SDQDI]

Red750 Normally you do those things . It's when there is something non standard happening that you forget the gear. That's why I suggest the minimum over the fence list. Nev

100% agree Nev. I personally found that out going from doing standard stopped runup checks on the blacktop at an airport to doing rolling runups at home on dirt/gravel I was surprised at how much I forgot just because I had changed the order a little. It's the same with downwind checks if you get pressured because of traffic or weather or new airport ect or you do a not normal for you join eg base join or straight in approach remembering downwind checks can be tricky. I was also taught the PUFF checks for late final as I learnt in a j3 having the Carby heat on for a go around could make the climb out interesting.

 

 

[facthunter]

Interesting one about the Carby heat. I have reverted to doing both every time. Throttle smoothly to open Carb heat checked cold/off. Always associate the two. ADD T/O power indicated. Nev

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Lucky to get 50fpm in a C150 with carby heat on.

 

 

[pylon500]

Can't find any evidence on the web, but I remember someone doing this at Bankstown back in the 90's.

 

May have even been an Aerostar, could have been a Seneca?

 

He was doing a powered touchdown, heard an antennae scrape and powered on and went around.

 

His props touched before reaching full power and he came back with 2" Q tips.

 

 

[Deskpilot]

If I was to design a plane with flaps and retract, I'd make it impossible to lower the flaps if the wheels were still up. That was my thinking when I asked about flaperons on the SD-II. How often would you want high lift with wheels up? Just have to manage your speed before selecting them, possibly simultaneously.

 

 

[facthunter]

Ditching at sea . Nev

 

 

[ben87r]

Also I select flap entering the circuit area and gear dosnt come down untill 5nm/mid downwind.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

Arrow had auto gear down below a certain speed. One day after take off the gear kept going half up then down again. Hot day, full load, zero climb. Fence hopped. Then an over-ride lock was fitted, an uluminium tab that kept the spring loaded gear-up lever in the up position. I suppose they still have them?

 

 

[turboplanner]

All good theories, but useless without effectively teaching Human Factors

 

These guys just love the gear horn - must have been an enthralling conversation.

 

 

 

[ben87r]

Since training I use the written checklist in flight after each change of flight condition. I would like a dollar for each time I have picked up something I've missed by using it after I've done my flow. Cowl flaps and mixture are the usual suspects.

 

Now although you can forget to use a written checklist just as you can forget a bumsomething, I think physically having to pick something up and read it is harder to forget.

 

It was SOP at the last company with allot of pilots and from what I know no one there had a gear up. Cant say the same for the current.

 

 

[ben87r]

Arrow had auto gear down below a certain speed. One day after take off the gear kept going half up then down again. Hot day, full load, zero climb. Fence hopped. Then an over-ride lock was fitted, an uluminium tab that kept the spring loaded gear-up lever in the up position. I suppose they still have them?

Hmm. That could get interesting quickly. I like being in control of the drag I reckon.

 

 

[facthunter]

U/L's generally have no flap asymmetry protection. Any time you extend flap you should be ready to arrest it or react to it if there is some failure of the mechanism/linkage/ structure. Limit speeds should be rigorously observed so as to not overload structures. Some flap speeds are too close to the clean turbulence penetration speed. Nev

 

 

[frank marriott]

Hmm. That could get interesting quickly. I like being in control of the drag I reckon.

The Lance I did some flying in had an override lever. Everyone operated in the override position. Only problem was in the override position a yellow warning light flashed - annoying by day, distracting to say the least at night. The light was covered with a bandaid so as not to effect serviceable status without annoying the pilot all day.

 

 

[biggles]

U/L's generally have no flap asymmetry protection. Any time you extend flap you should be ready to arrest it or react to it if there is some failure of the mechanism/linkage/ structure. Limit speeds should be rigorously observed so as to not overload structures. Some flap speeds are too close to the clean turbulence penetration speed. Nev

Flicking a switch to operate flaps, takes away the 'feel' of effort required pilots with manual flap operation experience ....... Bob

 

 

[facthunter]

Once the plane gets a bit large you have no option but to go hydraulic etc. They have assymetry protection. Nev

 

 

[red750]

When I was being taught to fly the Arrow, my instructor turned the panel lights on in the daytime when I wasn't watching. This dimmed the 3 greens so they looked like they were not on. Effective lesson. Almost got RSI winding down the manual extension crank on the Bonanza.

 

 

[Deskpilot]

I notice that most of you are referring to GA aircraft when this is a recreational aircraft site. Not getting pissy or anything but my design is for a rec plane. I was taught to apply flaps when turning cross wind or on late downwind. Not too early for wheels as well. As for no wheels when ditching into the sea, I wouldn't lower either of them, I'd fire the BPS and land flat on the belly of the plane, not that I intend to fly over long stretches of water.

 

 

[frank marriott]

My understanding it is about recreational flying as opposed to aircraft rego.

 

 

[Deskpilot]

Quite right Frank, but originally, as the history says:

 

History

 

Having its genesis in 2004, the Recreational Flying web site was originally created and devoted originally to Australian Recreational Pilots.

 

Over time it allowed GA pilots to join in so that they had somewhere to put their wheels down.;-)

 

 

[aj_richo]

Not getting pissy, but... applying flaps turning crosswind??