Enola Gay, heroism or insanity?

[Guest ericthered1975]

Enola Gay, undoubtedly the most famous B-29 bomber ever built. The big question, his fame comes from an act of heroism or insanity? Click on the link below, answer this poll and leave your opinion. The link also contains a full report and photos about this important chapter of WW2. Be sure to visit and participate.

 

http://aviacaoemfloripa.blogspot.com.br/2012/02/enola-gay.html

 

Cheers.

 

Eric

 

 

[AVOCET]

Be nice in english

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Heh Avocet, thought you might say something like Enola Gay est magnifique! Petits garçon rochers!

 

Besides these days it would be homophobic to criticize Enola no? BTW welcome Eric!

 

 

Theodore van Kirk: February 27, 1921 - July 28, 2014

 

 

[spacesailor]

Why? is the tail insignia different in the pictures. Any answer's

 

spacesailor

 

 

[bexrbetter]

I don't get it; There isn't an opinion, they were given a mission and they carried out their orders accordingly - stockade was the option.

 

 

[flyvulcan]

 

 

I visited her about a month ago in Washington. She is a beautiful machine!

 

 

 

[Deskpilot]

Trust some one to misuse the word 'gay', not that there was much gayety in dropping the bomb, just a necessity.

 

 

[kasper]

I just checked with my husband - the post by Gnarly on a back handed homophobic joke around the the changing meaning and use of the work Gay says more about him and his ideas of society and language than the reality of ... we had a quick look on the old god thread running around in circles on here and decided there was no hope for some.

 

Cest La Vie

 

 

[farri]

Be nice in english

I copied the text and used Google Translate, no problem.

 

heroism or insanity?... All wars are pure insanity!

 

Frank.

 

 

[facthunter]

Try to be nice in any language. Nev

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

I just checked with my husband

What? Did he tell you to be offended - or not? Not sure the meaning of this.

 

we had a quick look on the old god thread running around in circles on here and decided there was no hope for some.

Indeed. Hell awaits the God haters. But the good news is it doesn't have to be: "God has been pleased by the foolishness of the preaching to save those that believe."

 

Time to stop scoffing and look into this seriously, the consequences are eternal Kasper.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Bex, you are right about the crew, but I don't think that was the question... the question was whether the mission was insane or not.

 

Personally, I think they should have demonstrated it on an unpopulated target before dropping it on a city, and if the Martians had come and did their version of the Nuremberg trials then maybe the president would have been found guilty, but I doubt the aircrew would have. Mind you, the president did have his reasons, such as the high invasion casualties which would result from the Japanese culture of never surrendering. They didn't even surrender after the first bomb.

 

I'm an expert on this matter on account of having been born between the bombs, but not in Japan.

 

.. Bruce

 

 

[bexrbetter]

the question was whether the mission was insane or not.

It was a calculated risk by the Government so insane really doesn't come into it.

 

By far not the first time civilians have been slaughtered on mass, Mongols, Huns, Vikings, many others did as bad but in their cases, over and over so it's within human nature and has been around for a long time.

 

 

[dazza 38]

They shortened World War 2 by months, maybe even years.

 

The made the right choice IMO.

 

 

[Yenn]

Heroism or insanity. I maintain that you can't be a hero unless you know what the dangers are. The crew were never given the full details, so it isn't heroism in my book, any more than all the others did by following orders.

 

I think dropping the bomb was the right thing to do, without it there would have been fighting for a lot longer and many more would have been killed. I lived through the war as a child and at that time I would have been glad to see both Germany and Japan blown on the face of the earth. Those who look back in hindsight, don't know what war was like.

 

 

[kasper]

What? Did he tell you to be offended - or not? Not sure the meaning of this.

 

Indeed. Hell awaits the God haters. But the good news is it doesn't have to be: "God has been pleased by the foolishness of the preaching to save those that believe."

 

Time to stop scoffing and look into this seriously, the consequences are eternal Kasper.

No. Neither my husband nor I would conceive of telling the other what to think - probably something to do with our somewhat progressive marriage and all.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...the president did have his reasons, such as the high invasion casualties which would result from the Japanese culture of never surrendering. They didn't even surrender after the first bomb... Bruce

That's what I believed until tonight.

 

After the war the Allies discovered that Japan had at least 10,000 aircraft, as well as myriad boats, ready for kamikaze attacks. Many were sheltered deep in caves. An invasion would have brought enormous losses.

 

That may not be the real reason Truman ordered the bombs dropped. After Germany was defeated the Soviets moved large forces to the east. A doco tonight claims that at the Potsdam Conference Stalin promised to enter the war against Japan on August 15. The Soviets already controlled most of Eastern Europe; Truman was determined to end the war before they grabbed any more territory.

 

 

[farri]

Indeed. Hell awaits the God haters.

Gnarly, I don`t have a problem with anyone`s religion as long as they`re not trying to shove it down my throat or committing atrocities in the name of God.

 

Do you truly believe your statement?

 

Frank.

 

 

[Mick]

I met the navigator of the Enola Gay in 2008, it's not everyday you get to shake the hand of someone who has dropped an atomic bomb. At that time he was the last surviving member of the crew.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Gnarly, I don`t have a problem with anyone`s religion as long as they`re not trying to shove it down my throat or committing atrocities in the name of God.Do you truly believe your statement?

 

Frank.

One of the many conundrums troubling me: if the supreme being exists and has power over us, why does it need mere humans to defend it against insults? Perhaps the truly devout should keep their beliefs to themselves and let their creator fight its own battles.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

One of the many conundrums troubling me: if the supreme being exists and has power over us, why does it need mere humans to defend it against insults. Perhaps the truly devout should keep their beliefs to themselves and let their creator fight its own battles.

This is the Moslem's Allah you are referring to - and I agree. It is awful that people commit violence for this reason. Again Jesus foretells this in John 16 "but the hour is coming that every one who kills you will think to render service to God; and these things they will do because they have not known the Father nor me"

 

No. Neither my husband nor I would conceive of telling the other what to think - probably something to do with our somewhat progressive marriage and all.

Please understand that I am not telling you what to think Kasper, quite the opposite - I am suggesting you should think and investigate these issues for yourself. Don't let others think for you or unthinkingly accept what they claim on matters so important! Groupthink and peer pressure is very strong in our society.

 

 

[Geoff13]

This is the Moslem's Allah you are referring to - and I agree. It is awful that people commit violence for this reason. Again Jesus foretells this in John 16 "but the hour is coming that every one who kills you will think to render service to God; and these things they will do because they have not known the Father nor me"

 

 

Please understand that I am not telling you what to think Kasper, quite the opposite - I am suggesting you should think and investigate these issues for yourself. Don't let others think for you or unthinkingly accept what they claim on matters so important! Groupthink and peer pressure is very strong in our society.

Don't just blame the Muslims, "Think Crusades" Many evil things have been done in the name of Christianity.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

To me, the most amazing thing about the atom bombs is that the people who owned them apparently didn't believe they would really work. Many of the lives lost, such as our boys in New Guinea, could have been spared with the knowledge that Japan would have to surrender as soon as these were deployed.

 

 

[nickduncs84]

This is the Moslem's Allah you are referring to - and I agree. It is awful that people commit violence for this reason. Again Jesus foretells this in John 16 "but the hour is coming that every one who kills you will think to render service to God; and these things they will do because they have not known the Father nor me"

 

 

Please understand that I am not telling you what to think Kasper, quite the opposite - I am suggesting you should think and investigate these issues for yourself. Don't let others think for you or unthinkingly accept what they claim on matters so important! Groupthink and peer pressure is very strong in our society.

I normally have a blanket rule to not get into arguments with religious people. Not because I don't enjoy it but because you literally can't win. It doesn't matter how much sense or evidence you introduce, you can't compete with comments like 'the lord works in mysterious ways'.

 

But.... I almost spat out my coffee when I read that last part. You suggest people investigate these issues for themselves?? You do realise that the vast majority of religious people inherit their beliefs from someone else. This is literally the biggest issue and threat the world faces. And it's not just a few 'bad religions'. If you are willing to ignore science and the progression of society because of what was written in a book thousands of years ago, you are part of the problem.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

To me, the most amazing thing about the atom bombs is that the people who owned them apparently didn't believe they would really work. Many of the lives lost, such as our boys in New Guinea, could have been spared with the knowledge that Japan would have to surrender as soon as these were deployed.

Perhaps not, Bruce. The doco I referred to previously claims that even after the second bomb had been dropped, the government would not consider surrender. (After all, they hadn't budged as the fire bombing campaign had destroyed many cities and killed huge numbers; the A-booms were just a faster means of destruction.)

What really got them to surrender to the Americans was the massive Soviet attack. They felt that the Americans would let them keep their Emporer, but the commies wouldn't.