Is Knowing engine life important?

[IBails]

I've tried the search function and can't seem to get the definitive answer I'm seeking. I am in the process of looking at potential aircraft and have found That I seem to have a never ending research process in front of me.

 

One issue that I am not sure about is what happens if the seller cannot tell you the exact life of the engine. I am talking 19 rego planes here .

 

1) Would this effect the ability to insure the aircraft?

 

2) Would it effect the ability to register the aircraft?

 

3) Who is supposed to keep track of this information?

 

Appreciate any input.

 

 

[flyerme]

Sorry but from personal experience. I'd stay well away unless you plan on a complete overhaul of every component including engine

 

I have said it a few times. BEWARE THE LOG BOOKLESS AIRCRAFT,!!!

 

JUST MY EXPERIENCED OPINION....

 

Sounds like a whole world of trouble unless you have some spare coin on hand. Sorry to be negative. In last 12 months have dealt with 2 in same position both costing more than $10k to rectfy

 

 

[flyerme]

Oh

 

I've tried the search function and can't seem to get the definitive answer I'm seeking. I am in the process of looking at potential aircraft and have found That I seem to have a never ending research process in front of me.One issue that I am not sure about is what happens if the seller cannot tell you the exact life of the engine. I am talking 19 rego planes here .

 

1) Would this effect the ability to insure the aircraft?

 

2) Would it effect the ability to register the aircraft?

 

3) Who is supposed to keep track of this information?

 

Appreciate any input.

Oh and great topic. Close to home for me and should be talked about I have a chapter on this I'll try and find?

 

 

[facthunter]

The engine log book is a required document. Without it being available and honestly compiled you don't really have an engine for a plane unless you do certain things. (Prove by inspection/ rebuild it is suitable to essentially bring it onto the books,) This may be impossible in some cases. Nev

 

 

[flyerme]

The perils of purchase

 

"Johnny Planeright."

 

I had not long gained my ultralight pilot licence when I decided I would by my own Ultralight aircraft.. Not having a lot of dollars I decided on an old school single seat machine.

 

After hunting around a bit I came across this neat little plane in my price range called a "bunny hopper". The owner had it advertised as fly away and assured me via phone I would have no problem flying this plane home. Wisely I decided to trailer my new toy home , because at home I discovered severe cracks in the wing attachments and the pod barely hanging on ... This plane required Extensive repairs which could never be afforded.

 

A few years down the track I had some coinage to spend and again went on the hunt. This time I found a very neat looking plane and fell in love. A single seat "Farm skipper".

 

This time I thought I would be smart (as the plane was out of state) and ask him to take some pics.. The pics came back and to my delight she was beautiful. I took off with trailer in tow for the 15 hr drive... I arrived to find the little plane already dismantled and packed ready to go? In my excitement I hurriedly tied my new toy and headed home.

 

Well you can guess the outcome? Yes another dodgy brothers deal with bits missing , tares in skins ect.... Turns out the photos sent were old photos from its hay day.( I would find this a common trick!)

 

Next plane I wasn't taking any chances.... I would find one close to home to inspect it and I would have the owner fly it while I observed...so I found one not far, infact only 30 kms away,

 

I checked it out, yep all looks the good , then asked the owner to fly it. He agreed I come back early morning and I did so , to find a very nervous pilot... After at least 5 pre flight checks spending a lot of time going over the engine he strapped himself in. He then did several taxi runs before finally taking off. He did only 1 circuit and landed back ... ( this was a warning I missed)

 

So I bought the plane and I too took off for a circuit.

 

now I decided to fly the 30 kms home but the old owner says-" your better off trailering it untill you get used to it? "Hmmm? I disagreed and announce my intention to depart only to be waived down and told another pilot will follow me.. I did not like this idea as I was looking forward to a solo trip but in the end I agreed... I really found it odd that they were so adamant I be followed? Well 15 kms in to the trip the engine dies ? At 500 ft I manage a restart and climb full power to x hight ,set cruise again ,and bam,Engine dies again. I restart, advance to full power and away she goes again. I leave it at max and continue at near VNE until my runway is in site, I kill power and again the engine stops? I restart with full power and away she goes . I find I now have a blip throttle!.

 

A dead stick landing was made perfectly with pucker factor of 10. Turns out plane had engine problems that couldn't be

 

sorted- 3 engines later. Complete fuel tank and system replacement.Found aux electric fuel pump wired wrong and would turn on when engine fired flooding carbs..

 

So it was time for a bigger plane. Something safe and certified.. Found a " LIGHTJUMPER"

 

Awesome, safe , certified MTOW 480kgs weighs 210kgs would be perfect ,

 

Pick it up and is perfect condition.

 

Use all $$$ and beg borrow and steal to get it . after getting her home a W/B was done by lvl 2 and plane found to weigh 255 kgs? But with MTOW of 480 all good right? No turns out old owner was dishonest ... MTOW - 400kgs !empty weight 255kgs!!!!!!!!! Needs E/O. Prop change, the list goes on.......

 

Next I buy another old school single seat plane , I inspect it and it all looks the goods.

 

I should note hear that all the above planes were bought with NO log book?( beware the log bookless plane!)

 

I fly the plane around for a bit but notice a trim issue. Upon further investigation I find a wing to have a slight twist in it . I waste no time in carefully cutting fabric to find a horrible blood chilling site. Inside ,the wing rivets were elongated and held by basically the fabric.

 

A new wing was required. Turns out the old owner had ground looped it ( a few times) No repair done , just sell to some poor sucker....ME

 

My good mate Andy Airtime , had been saving for a couple years , he really wanted his dream plane and when all came together well the excitement was consuming..

 

He picked up his bird and I immediately went down to inspect it.

 

- You know when something is not yours you don't get caught up in the excitement and you tend to have clearer vision ,?- yeh I could see some issues .. And Again no log book .. Anyway after a few weeks of repairs and such he got her up into the air only to descover a world of engine trouble , oil out the breather, overheating, surging ,the list goes on...... Ah so that's why they let you talk em down $10k? We found again photos in advert (and sent) were old.

 

Yep seems when it comes to ones own life you'll preserve it with every effort but when it's someone else's you couldn't care less!

 

***Serious NOTE:***

 

All characters and events in this publication are fictitious, any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, or any events past or present are purely coincidental

 

Gee! . This story doesn't get old. UNFORTUNATELY.

 

 

[planesmaker]

Seems a bit too common, I looked at a 2 seater onetime, when I asked about weight, around 400kg! Where are the log books? No log books ! I was definitely not interested. Another aircraft I bought as a wreck , had log books but nothing of any consequence or value written in it, it was a factory built machine. I dismantled it.

 

 

[IBails]

So seems everyone agrees no log books are an issue, but getting back to the question, What are the requirements re engine life , Must the engine life,Hrs, been know to register a 19 aircraft ? Does not knowing the exact hours limit the ability to insure the aircraft ? I understand the risk of engine life etc , and good checks can be done, I am also interested in what the requirements are for registration and insurance.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

have you considered overhauling the engine before flying it?

 

 

[kasper]

So seems everyone agrees no log books are an issue, but getting back to the question, What are the requirements re engine life , Must the engine life,Hrs, been know to register a 19 aircraft ? Does not knowing the exact hours limit the ability to insure the aircraft ? I understand the risk of engine life etc , and good checks can be done, I am also interested in what the requirements are for registration and insurance.Thanks in advance.

Bit hard to understand ... as the aircraft already exists registration in 19 cat already exists

Transfer of registration form requires statement of total air frame hours and hours in last 12 months ... could be fun to state accurately though I have transferred registration of another series without logbooks based on 'unknown' and started from scratch in my ownership

 

Annual renewal requires you to state air frame hours total and 12 months to last December - first year may be a unknown + X answer

 

Factually you will have to assume that the engine is past TBO as you have no documentation to substantiate it - therefore Tech 4.2.5 comes in to allow operations past manufacturers TBO so you can do the test appropriate for your engine type and then you get a new 'TBO' period to run on condition.

 

On insurance

 

- the third part person and property attached to your RAA pilots certificate makes no issue with the aircraft engine so long as its 'airworthy' and if you have baselined the engine by use of Tech 4.2.5 you're OK.

 

- on separate hull insurance your broker/insurance company alone can answer this and as I have no recent experience in this country on this others will have to guide.

 

 

[IBails]

Thanks Kasper interesting info. The plane I am reviewing is not that old and the engine is a modified Rotax , there is an assumed age but no substantiation I believe. So am I to assume that I have to validate the engine via 4.2.5 , or if the previous owner has done this does this reset the hours to run on condition. On condition is a phrase I have no idea what it means but seems to imply once checked the engine life restarts?

 

 

[IBails]

Just looked at the section and it seems fairly logical . I would think putting this as a requirement of the seller would be appropriate . In any case I think the checks required under this section one would do even it the engine hours are known. Now I have another question , lets say the engine has a slight modification , the checks imply with in specifications of the manufacturer , but if there is a modification that produces more power but this modification is not offered by the manufacturer , will meeting the standard unmodified engine specs suffice?

 

Thanks again

 

 

[kasper]

Just looked at the section and it seems fairly logical . I would think putting this as a requirement of the seller would be appropriate . In any case I think the checks required under this section one would do even it the engine hours are known. Now I have another question , lets say the engine has a slight modification , the checks imply with in specifications of the manufacturer , but if there is a modification that produces more power but this modification is not offered by the manufacturer , will meeting the standard unmodified engine specs suffice?Thanks again

That's an RAA Tech office query - Darren or Jared are your men on that level of detailed application of 4.2.5

 

 

[IBails]

Thanks I will contact them. Really appreciate the helpful advice. Knowing what I am getting into before I get there is just like good flight planning.