EFI done easy

[Russ]

http://www.sdsefi.com/

[jetjr]

Whole threads on it here

 

Also on Avcom, theres a build thread

 

Not as easy as it may appear but good results

 

 

[AVOCET]

SDS .Works well on the Avocet , just finished fuel burn /hr calibration , ;

 

25 , yes exactly /lts/hr circuit flying and local area . ( 3.8 hrs ) Various RPM settings .ALT not above 4000AMSL.

 

22.4 lt/hr Druidvale / Jaimstown / Loxton/Druidvale .( 4.4 hrs ) cruise 5,500 / 4,500 ft 2750RPM IAS 102 knts .

 

Method used ;

 

Start with drainrd tanks on level ground ,

 

Quantity of fuel added ,( full tank avgas ).

 

Timed flight , including taxi ,

 

Aircraft levelled ,

 

Fuel drained and measured ,

 

Calculations done ,

 

Mike

 

 

[jetjr]

Ah yes Avocet runs it, forgot bout that

 

They are selling a more complete kit now from euro dealer

 

Does include some expensive but nice new parts

 

 

[Russ]

System just installed into jab 3300, I think chap has also retained the original carby install ( backup )

 

I understand he may have had same setup on another craft, which worked great. Injectors are plumbed into inlet tubes, right up at the heads. Can't be too far off firing her up......interesting.

 

( they're a 12v system......if, 12v fails for whatever reason, re engage the carby system ) I'm keen to see the completed project.

 

 

[jetjr]

Cool

 

Theres one in South Aus too like that

 

Its on my wish list for sure

 

Any pics?

 

 

[bexrbetter]

I'll mention the thread to Ross so he can answer your questions ....

 

 

[Guest rv6ejguy]

SDS is currently producing more new CNC'd parts to make installation easier on the Rotax 912, Jabiru 2200/3300 and Lycoming engines. You'll find the aircraft specific info here: http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html.

 

We also have a new product coming out late this month which is a stand alone, user programmable, distributorless ignition system for above said engines plus most auto conversions using carbs or mechanical FI: http://sdsefi.com/cpi.htm

 

We've had some Jabs and 912s flying since 2008 all over the world.

 

I am happy to answer any questions people may have.

 

 

[AVOCET]

CoolTheres one in South Aus too like that

Its on my wish list for sure

 

Ross from SDS is a great guy to deal & talk aircraft with , a true enthusiest ,

 

At one stage i thought about the Aust . dealership , another story .

 

Any pics?

 

 

[Downunder]

I am happy to answer any questions people may have.

OK, So "Edge" are doing your 912 injection now? http://www.sdsefi.com/rotax3.htm And they do look very impressive!

 

Just wondering what the relationship is? Do they handle the hardware and you the software?

 

 

[Guest rv6ejguy]

We've been supplying EFI for aviation for over 20 years now and did our first EFI 912 back in 2006 with another partner who supplied an engine for jigging and testing purposes. The system worked well but the partnership went nowhere so we made our own 912 kits, however the world was not ready it seemed, only sold 6 of them over 2 years. Total kit cost was around $2800 US back then, including manifold. We supplied Jason Parker in the US with many 912 systems back in the 2007-2009 era but problems and poor customer support stopped that one, although many are still flying around the world with our support.

 

We were going to co-produce complete kits with Edge Performance around 2012 but in the end, I thought the price was getting too high for the average buyer so we decided to let them produce and sell the kits on their own and we'd just supply the electronics. This has worked out reasonably well although kit sales for the 912s are well below what we sell for Lycoming engines.

 

When Rotax introduced the iS a couple years ago, suddenly more people warmed up to the idea of EFI for their older models and the sales were a bit better from then on. Edge has introduced many other cool parts for the 912s like Big Bore and supercharger kits to go along with the EFI. Prices are high but the quality is top notch so it still appeals to many who need extra performance in a lightweight package.

 

We are making some more parts for the handier people to do DIY installations while saving some money along the way. You'll see some photos of these new parts on our Aircraft Page in about 3-4 weeks. We're also working on some new active feedback software for aviation applications we hope to have ready in June.

 

I estimate there are around 50 912 SDS EFI systems flying today. Total flight time on those is estimated to be at least 7500 hours.

 

We've supplied over 150 systems for Jabiru engines over the same sort of time period- many for UAV and flight training in foreign countries. We estimate at least 30,000 flight hours on those collectively.

 

 

[Downunder]

Thanks very much for that reply. Very comprehensive.

 

I look forward to the new products coming out soon. Please do keep us informed !

 

 

[Guest rv6ejguy]

For the latest EM-5 ECUs, we've just released the new 8 channel data logging/ digital dash feature for easier tuning of the system. Hardware kit allows a USB connection to a Windows compatible XP/ 7/ 8.1 laptop. Also allows you to save and print maps after programming changes. Programming is still done via the panel mountable programmer/ gauge head. http://www.sdsefi.com/data.htm

 

 

[bexrbetter]

Thanks for gracing the forum with your expertise Ross, always sound reading.

 

 

[hyundai]

I have been very interested in FI for 2200 jab I think it would sort out the EGT different on cyl. Has there ever been any ECU failures to date as I would keep the bing as backup. The problem to date is the ausy dollar not good.

 

 

[Guest rv6ejguy]

I am not aware of any ECU failures in aircraft unless they got wet somehow which is not the fault of the electronics of course. One of our ECUs used for bench testing has 145,000 hours on it now- never been touched in that time.

 

Some customers have retained their carbs as a backup.

 

 

[hyundai]

Ok I think FI will be my next project.

 

What is the noticeable power gain on the 2200.

 

 

[Guest rv6ejguy]

Ok I think FI will be my next project.What is the noticeable power gain on the 2200.

Depending on the throttle body used (less restriction at high rpm), you may see up to 5hp with the EFI. The bigger gains are in fuel economy, especially if you fit both the fuel and ignition control. Users on the 2200 and 3300 engines report 8-15% lower fuel burn at the same TAS as with the carbs, this is with the fuel only systems. One fellow flying mainly at higher altitudes with fuel and spark control was seeing 15-18% lower fuel burn at the same TAS typically.

 

 

[facthunter]

CV and venturi carbs have a pressure drop across them so there is always a power loss because of this. Depending on how you gauge your mass airflow this is reduced with FI. Evenness of fuel mixture distribution should save fuel as you don;t have to tune to the leanest cylinder. Some of the improvements claimed seem a bit optimistic. Your engine will be better off with even mixtures. Less carbon build up and cleaner oil and easier starting. Better plug life Nev

 

 

[jetjr]

You are correct but stuck with a bit of trade off, keep the old CV carb for backup, then you keep the restriction but its sure simpler than most alternatives.

 

SDS do nice CNC throttle body, dual ECU, pumps, the whole deal but no doubt costs and weighs double too.

 

We are talking Jabirus here, with terrible distribution uniformity and a raft of problems associated. Most likely they are using way too much fuel too to overcome some of this.

 

Whats frustrating is that some run even EGT and good fuel use and we cant work out why.

 

The lower fuel burn is reported consistently with this and other EFI setups on Jabs PLUS you get the other benefits you mentioned.

 

 

[Guest rv6ejguy]

CV and venturi carbs have a pressure drop across them so there is always a power loss because of this. Depending on how you gauge your mass airflow this is reduced with FI. Evenness of fuel mixture distribution should save fuel as you don;t have to tune to the leanest cylinder. Some of the improvements claimed seem a bit optimistic. Your engine will be better off with even mixtures. Less carbon build up and cleaner oil and easier starting. Better plug life Nev

Many engines like the Jabs and Conti O-200s have quite poor fuel distribution with the carb so we see some pretty large gains in fuel economy on these engines with EFI. Don't take my word for it. Here is what a high time user in Australia found on his 3300 with the EFI . "The system is still working well, picked up around 8-10 kts indicated due to the rpm increase and fuel usage went from 26 Lts/hr. to around 18 Liters/hr.- not bad"- John Milsteed. Putting the EFI on makes people realize how bad the carb is on some engines. On other engines, the carb works reasonably well but we see power and economy gains to some degree on every engine actually. Rotax 912s are picking up 125 to 250 rpm over the carbs with no ignition changes as an example (same prop).

 

With the larger, shaftless TB replacing the carb, WOT pressure drop is about 4% less on the Jab 2200 at high rpm.

 

 

[hyundai]

Jab engines rely on rich mixture to keep them cool so a drop 26 to 18 ltr an hour means the engine is running leaner. .?????

 

 

[Guest rv6ejguy]

Jab engines rely on rich mixture to keep them cool so a drop 26 to 18 ltr an hour means the engine is running leaner. .?????

In cruise, cooling should not be an issue. Also, running LOP as this user probably is, reduces CHTs. Since you have no mixture control with the Bing, you have no idea how rich the factory setup is. If it is set up to run 11.5 AFR (Some cylinders may be 12.5 and some 11 on the Jab) and you can now run 16 AFR equally on all cylinder with the EFI, you can see the potential fuel savings. There is a very extensive writeup on a 3300 EFI installation from South Africa here which may be of interest: http://www.avcom.co.za/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=137074&hilit=jabiru+efi

 

 

[jetjr]

The savings come from the even distribution therefore yo can safely run leaner

 

EMS can show 100 degC difference in EGT between cylinders in cruise

 

In different phases of flight this changes and leanest cylinder even swaps around

 

I dont think the guys in Oz are running LOP, they are simply able to cut back due to even running cylinders

 

 

[Guest rv6ejguy]

The savings come from the even distribution therefore yo can safely run leanerEMS can show 100 degC difference in EGT between cylinders in cruise

In different phases of flight this changes and leanest cylinder even swaps around

 

I dont think the guys in Oz are running LOP, they are simply able to cut back due to even running cylinders

To get the FF from 26 to 18 would indicate they are running LOP. If Jab had it set up to run an average 12 AFR (near best power), the reduction in FF would indicate around 17 AFR to reduce fuel flow that much- well LOP. We are running the Lycomings routinely at 16.5-17 AFR LOP as a comparison.