EFI done easy

[Geoff13]

rv6ejguyI have stock 912ULS what would it cost to fit it out with one of your systems?...not including freight to australia. I mean everything I would need to do the conversion electronics and hardware?

And could you do a special rate for 2. Lol

 

 

[Guest rv6ejguy]

Is this viable compared to simply using the iS injected version which has all this sorted out?

The iS engine is pretty pricey and heavy. A lot of people have low time or half time S engines and are willing to spend a few K to have most of the benefits without a lot of the complexity and being tied to Rotax for help. We've got a new partner in the US who's been converting S engines over to EFI for a couple years now and his customers love them. He'll be testing some new manifolds and parts soon to hopefully bring complete kits to the market at a more reasonable price than our previous partner.

 

 

[Guest rv6ejguy]

Regarding Camit, we approached them 2 years ago and Ian said they were interested but just too busy to deal with a project like that at the time. I assume little has changed or he would have got back to us in that interval.

 

Regarding CNC work, our Canadian dollar is almost on par with the Australian one. I don't think we'd save anything in the small quantities produced for this market when the shipping costs and customs hassles were added in. Our CNC shop is very, very fair for small runs and prototyping.

 

 

[Kununurra]

SDS .Works well on the Avocet , just finished fuel burn /hr calibration , ;25 , yes exactly /lts/hr circuit flying and local area . ( 3.8 hrs ) Various RPM settings .ALT not above 4000AMSL.

 

22.4 lt/hr Druidvale / Jaimstown / Loxton/Druidvale .( 4.4 hrs ) cruise 5,500 / 4,500 ft 2750RPM IAS 102 knts .

 

Method used ;

 

Start with drainrd tanks on level ground ,

 

Quantity of fuel added ,( full tank avgas ).

 

Timed flight , including taxi ,

 

Aircraft levelled ,

 

Fuel drained and measured ,

 

Calculations done ,

 

Mike

Hi AVOCET

I have seen a few times where people say that they drained their tanks then refuel (filling the tank) before flying then refilled ? Why not just fill the tank before flight then when you get back refill it would that not give the same result in terms of how much fuel was consumed during flight ?

 

Just asking

 

 

[Guest rv6ejguy]

For the Rotax and Jabiru, most folks are buying fuel only systems. The electronics plus a few parts like crank sensor mounts and magnet discs set you back about $1350US for a 912 or 2200. If you add fuel pumps, injectors, TB, regulator and injector bosses to that, it roughly doubles that and you still have some welding and fab work ahead of you. Ordering 2 at once and we could give a bit of a discount.

 

Doing fuel and spark is a bit more expensive still so that's harder to justify for many and they like their no-battery-required stock ignitions in many cases even though they have no timing options.

 

 

[jetjr]

Id suggest things have improved for Camit, engine mods now now complete and selling well.

 

2 years ago things were at their darkest with the Jabiru/regulator problems.

 

He can more easily do stuff for Jabiru/Camit because he makes the lot - all models already exist. It would possibly only work for AU market, freight is a killer.

 

Is there any benefit in AU customers buying from you in Canadian dollar?

 

 

[Geoff13]

In fact the Jabiru CASA issue as it affected Camit is only 13 months old.

 

 

[jetjr]

there were Jabiru/CAE problems well before CASA stepped in.

 

 

[Guest rv6ejguy]

Our prices have always been based in USD as the Canadian dollar goes up and down like a yoyo plus most of our customers are in the US anyway. The conversion would end up about the same.

 

 

[jetjr]

Paying the bank 3-5% currency transfer fee is what gets me down

 

 

[Nobody]

Paying the bank 3-5% currency transfer fee is what gets me down

If you are transferring serious money OS dont use a bank. Use a specialist currency exchange business. The rates are much better. I used ozfore for my engine but there are others:

 

https://www.ofx.com/en-au/

 

 

[Guest rv6ejguy]

Not sure how Australian banks work. We usually see a flat wire transfer fee of between $18 and $50, regardless of amount but the banks may not give you the best rate on the exchange of currency part and neither do the credit card companies or PayPal either.

 

 

[jetjr]

Yes same setup but the rate is the killer

 

at $0.02 c per dollar at $0.70 usd thats around 3% cost for the transfer. Plus fee.

 

Makes us gear 30-35% more expensive.

 

 

[Guest rv6ejguy]

We've just released V26.1 software for the EM-5 ECUs. This has an added optional feature to output fuel flow information to most glass engine monitors. This removes the need to install traditional electro/ mechanical flow meters like Red Cube and FloScan

 

 

[jetjr]

Sounds good thanks

 

I heard you might be workingwith fuel trim for 6 cyl?

 

 

[Guest rv6ejguy]

We've been going all out for 8 months with many new CNC'd parts designs and software- 12+ hours a day 6-7 days a week and are pretty burnt out. Have a couple more parts to come for Lycoming parallel and angle valve engines and then we need to stop for a bit and get our lives back. Once we recover, the 6 cylinder trim is one of the first projects we'll tackle. This will be a bit expensive for fuel and spark applications as it's going to involve twin CPUs. For fuel only applications like the Jab 3300, it could be done with a single ECU. We just don't see many Jab sales however and would have to be sure the market is there before embarking on that one. Almost all Lycoming users want fuel and ignition and we see the bulk of our sales there.

 

Since this is Australia, how many people would buy EFI for their 3300s if fuel trim was available?

 

 

[Downunder]

912 manifold Looks good. The only thing that concerns me is how high those injectors are. Then adding an elbow and hose.

 

Maybe it's just the perspective, but for tightly cowled engines it could be a difficult fit.

 

Would be good perhaps to have a low profile injector "cap" with a side fuel port.

 

I guess the angle of the injector is relative to the intake port?

 

Keep up the good work!

 

 

 

[Guest rv6ejguy]

Thanks. The tops are actually a little lower than the top of the carbs, but outboard further. The 912 is pretty narrow and most planes I've seen have a lot of clearance here on the cowl. We do have injector tops which have side entry holes, saving another 20mm in height over the 90 degree fittings in the top. That being said, there are so many variation in engine mounts and cowls, this manifold won't fit every airframe. You also must move the coolant tank and the ignition boxes around slightly. Tossing the factory ignition fixes the latter problem quite nicely!

 

The boss tops are 125mm above the head surface and inside a line projecting straight up from the outboard bolt centerline by a few mm.

 

There are velocity stacks formed into each runner tube for higher airflow.

 

 

[jetjr]

Since this is Australia, how many people would buy EFI for their 3300s if fuel trim was available?

Tough quetion but id look at South Africa and Australia combined, sales would be solid. In saying that im not sure what numbers you need. Both markets are no doubt small compard to your neighbours

 

As discussed the cost landed would be a problem

 

Theres lots of interest in RSA with the non event of manufacurer system

 

 

[Guest rv6ejguy]

We'll look into a 6 cyl. setup with trim without ignition. Can maybe do that with a single ECU to keep costs down. Most Jab guys stick with the stock ignition and just want to do fuel control only. Not much I can do about the exchange rate although the US has fallen a bit in the last 30 days which has perked up sales in Australia and NZ at bit of late.

 

 

[jetjr]

if the kit can be purchased in parcels of <$900 AUD it can save another 10% tax

 

Not for much longer though

 

Id trade off ignition for fuel trim for sure.

 

Id also maybe look at single pump and retain carb to keep $$ down too.

 

Maybe a cut rate Aussie kit?

 

 

[Guest rv6ejguy]

No two aviation kits are the same, they are customized to the buyer. We will sell people whatever suits their needs and budgets, delete what they don't need. Some people have retained carbs on other engines as backup, others have added a mechanical fuel nozzle in the intake manifold to do the same. One fuel pump without the module and 2nd pump saves about $400. We're happy to ship the systems in $900 chunks as that's all we can insure mail shipments for anyway, although the shipping costs may eat up some of those tax savings.

 

 

[jetjr]

Yep, true re freight

 

Can a hall effect sender be shared with say a dynon?

 

CAE have a nice one someone makes, replaces vdo pickup found on most

 

 

[Guest rv6ejguy]

We can work with tach signals between 5 and 200 volts, 2 pulses per crank rev for fours, 3 per rev on sixes, needs to be close to a square wave. On the other side of the coin you could use our sensor and send a clean tach signal to the Dynon from the ECU. Our sensor is $75US but the mount, magnets and dics add up to another $110 or so. Not sure what the Dynon one is worth. Do they even make one?

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

It needs to be under AUS$1000 total and that is INCLUDING the freight and any insurance the total to be under 1000 aussie...so basically US$700 inc freight and insurance otherwise we get nailed for GST and any import duty on the top of that amount