Plane Crash North Stradbroke Island

[facthunter]

When stalling IF your plane tends to drop one wing before the other, check if you are inputting rudder. Stall with wings level for this exercise and no aileron as the stall approaches. IF it consistently drops a particular wing check you wing angle of incidence or for misrigging . It's something that might get you on approach or in a situation where you don't have your usual margins. Nev

 

 

[Teckair]

I think our accident rate is a concern and Dutch is right if it keeps going the way it is there will be problems. The recent search for a missing aircraft involving many costly helicopters and other aircraft should be a warning.

 

When stalling IF your plane tends to drop one wing before the other, check if you are inputting rudder. It's something that might get you on approach or in a situation where you don't have your usual margins. Nev

A while back I started a thread about people steering on final with rudder and the reasons why I thought it was a bad idea, to my amazement there were a heap of people who thought it was a good idea,

 

 

[facthunter]

Too much misinformation and lack of information at the same time. you are only an ab initio once. If you are given duff gen you may carry it for life which may be shortened because of your ignorance.Planes forgive neither ignorance or stupidity . I believe the rudder should be used IF needed. Like kicking straight when landing x wind or to counteract adverse aileron effect in gusts or an intended rapid heading change. This is limit flying sort of.. Gets difficult to be gotten across on line conversations. Ball in centre if you are slow or have stick back or she will roll when it stalls.

 

Hardly anyone teaches this stuff. (as far as I know) Nev

 

 

[David Isaac]

......... Hardly anyone teaches this stuff. (as far as I know) Nev

you are right Nev, unless you are doing tail wheel training or early high drag Ultralight training where it is ingrained in you.The number of GA pilots that I have witnessed flying that have anesthetized legs and feet is amazing.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

farri, how often do you practice your emergency procedures?

 

 

[Birdseye]

Another issue is currency. If somebody flies very infrequently, they will be at best in the 'concious competence' state, that is they will have to think about something then do it. If they have got themselves into a situation, that split second might be just too long.

 

There is also fixation on task. When somebody is overloaded mentally they will tend to focus on one issue to the detriment of all else that is happening. I remember a presumably fairly new helicopter pilot calling up to say that he was encountering lowering cloud, reducing visibility, couldn't turn around due to high ground and sounding very worried. The also newish ATCO tried to identify him on radar by asking radial and DME. I leant across and said "he is in a bloody helicopter - tell him to find a safe place, check for wires and put it on the ground". The pilot's reply was "can I do that?". He was so focussed on the weather problem he forgot the obvious.

 

 

[farri]

farri, how often do you practice your emergency procedures?

About every flight I do......I`m able to fly whenever I want, weather permitting and so I fly regularly, always have. I might go up two or three days in a row, basically, whenever I feel like flying.

 

Frank.

 

 

[facthunter]

Somebody who flys mainly one plane may instinctively apply some action to another that is inappropriate if they react too quickly.. Always make sure you are moving the right control in the right direction. Instinctive works ok if you only fly the same plane all the time

 

Be deliberate and positive (and correct) Know the effect of what you do always, before you do it. Especially with fuel management. Rarely any need to be quick there. Nev

 

 

[farri]

I think our accident rate is a concern .

Of course it`s a concern! It always has been and always will be! One fatal, is one too many, or any accident, for that matter... So, what`s the solution?....When you find it, let me know!

 

Frank,

 

Ps, No offence meant.

 

 

[Aldo]

But I am certain you know all this and were perhaps taking the p1ss.

David

 

No I'm not meaning to take the p1ss and it wasn't my intention to offend.

 

Not sure who "... you guys ..." is

"You guy's" is all and sundry myself included, you quoted the first bit of what I said but left out the part that was more relevant which was "multiple pages of speculation" once again I'm included in that speculative group based on what I've heard, seen or in the case of weather related incidents what the known conditions were on the day, any additional information to support the investigation I believe would be beneficial to all and would reduce the amount of speculation.

 

Not sure what world you live in Aldo, or maybe it was simply an emotive slip, but rag and tube are here to stay

I didn't say rag & tube was gone, but what it was and how it was operated 30 years ago has gone. I actually did my RAA conversion certificate in a drifter and still fly one regularly (I happen to think they are one of the nicest light aircraft to fly) we have two of them in the hanger, I have also done some lessons in a trike which I also enjoy and will continue that when I have the spare time.

 

I don't want to see rag & tube gone but I am part of the RA group who want to be able to fly outside my back yard, many posters here complain about the part of RA that I partake in as the reasons for increased cost and regulation I don't believe this to be the case. I believe the increases cost and regulation is a result of many things, some the organisation is responsible for and others the members are responsible for.

 

I don't complain about any part of RA although I do have views on the level of training and the way in which some exercise the privilege of the certificate. I don't agree that RA should have CTA privilege in its current form (if you want that get a class 2 medical and go GA), you can then fly your RA (with whatever requirements you need) in CTA.

 

Aldo

 

 

[David Isaac]

I'm with you all the way Aldo now I see where you are coming from. Especially the training and CTA bits ... though Id probably agree to CTA transit in limited coastal zones with appropriate training.

 

 

[Powerin]

Probabily wouldn't give you much after its been sitting in the ocean for two days....even if you did find it.

I dunno Maj. Found a USB memory stick washed up on a Sunshine coast beach (in the water) earlier this year. Washed it in fresh water, gave it a week to dry out, and works fine. I was hoping to find some interesting files or photos....but instead got a couple of movies I hadn't seen

With a bit of luck memory cards should last a little while in the water.

 

 

[David Isaac]

The GoPro survived the DH 82 crash on the GC Maj. Memory cards are quite resilient.

 

 

[Aldo]

There you go, someone who knows! Goodonya David.Darren Jones, is a guy I instructed, not long after I obtained my AUF CFI rating.... Darren has been an RA-Aus CFI for some years, he is also a commercial pilot rated for certain amphibian aircraft..... He`s trying to establish a flying school up on the Atherton Tablelands..... The aircraft he has chosen is a rag and tube, Bantam.....I took the photo a few days ago when Darren paid me a visit.

Good for Darren I'm always impressed when someone puts their money on the line to have a go, I hope he succeeds.

 

Aldo

 

 

[Aldo]

I'm with you all the way Aldo now I see where you are coming from. Especially the training and CTA bits ... though Id probably agree to CTA transit in limited coastal zones with appropriate training.

David

 

I understand all the reasoning for the coastal CTA transit especially where you are located but it would need to come with some very intensive training to be able to be accomplished in any form that would be acceptable.

 

Aldo

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

The GoPro survived the DH 82 crash on the GC Maj. Memory cards are quite resilient.

Unfortunatly I know of a couple from recent crashes ( IPhone and Ipad ) which didn't reveal any data due excessive damage, and that was with the boys at ATSB looking at them.

 

 

[David Isaac]

I am sure that not all could survive. After all they ain't 'black boxes'.

 

 

[Guest asmol]

Unfortunatly I know of a couple from recent crashes ( IPhone and Ipad ) which didn't reveal any data due excessive damage, and that was with the boys at ATSB looking at them.

But iPad and Iphone are different technology from what i was told and dont store information like a memory card which is 1000% more durable even in water.

 

 

[Guernsey]

I'm looking forward to the memory stick which can be attached to my brain. .

 

Alan.

 

 

[daza]

But what good would even a "Black Box" be?

 

If there is an investigation, no results are released anyway.

 

darren

 

 

[Guest asmol]

I'm looking forward to the memory stick which can be attached to my brain. .Alan.

Sorry but i cant help myself, They dont make 1GB memory sticks anymore.

 

 

[Teckair]

Of course it`s a concern! It always has been and always will be! One fatal, is one too many, or any accident, for that matter... So, what`s the solution?....When you find it, let me know!Frank,

 

Ps, No offence meant.

If we were told what the cause of the accidents were that would be a big help, right now we have some people who do know, like board members, but the majority who do not. The Lightwing Speed that went into the drink off Sydney apparently ran out of fuel were we told? NO but the privileged few knew about it. If there is something about those aircraft that means it is difficult to check the fuel then people should know about it as it might save someones life. If someone had a Artificial Horizon and a GPS in their plane and thought they could fly through cloud we should know about it, it might just stop someone else from trying it. I have reported several things I considered to be safety issues to the then Ops Manager and found it a waste of time and would not bother again. On this forum some years ago I said I had discovered during BFRs there was a problem with pilots not being able to do glide approaches. I was attacked from all sides for that and even blamed for it someone said it was up to me to retrain all these people and undo their bad training and years of poor flying habits. Then there was the steering on final with rudder which I could not understand but their was a heap of people who thought it was a good idea.

 

 

[red750]

There is also fixation on task.

There have been a number of episodes of Air Crash Investigation where even airline crews have been so fixated on an instrument reading that they forgot to fly the plane resulting in a crash.

 

 

[Birdseye]

There have been a number of episodes of Air Crash Investigation where even airline crews have been so fixated on an instrument reading that they forgot to fly the plane resulting in a crash.

Probably one of the more recent examples was the Air France over the South Atlantic.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

My maths teacher had a memory stick many years ago. It worked on me.