Five point harness

[Old Koreelah]

My old 4-pt harness is getting hard to adjust and I should replace it with a better setup that prevents submarining. There are lots of 5-pt harnesses on eBay; most seem designed for drag racing, but I can't see how their release mechanism works. Can anyone give advice?

 

 

[old man emu]

My old 4-pt harness is getting hard to adjust.

Have the side straps shrunk, or their intended contents enlarged?

 

OME

 

 

[facthunter]

5 point harness is the only "proper" harness for aircraft. (and probably a car as well) The release only has to let go of 4. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Have the side straps shrunk, or their intended contents enlarged?OME

Cheeky bugger! Neither actually (I can still wear the racing leathers made for me in 1978).

The straps must be getting stiff, because it's near impossible to pull the belt tight. I dare not pull the shoulder straps tight, because that just lifts the main belt above my hips.

 

 

[Yenn]

5 pt harnesses can have several types of release. In my opinion the best is a quick release, by twisting the big knob at the front of the attachment point. Don;t know what is on e bay, but I have Crow, made in USA.

 

I believe the standards for car use are no less than for aviation, in fact they may be higher.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I'd just buy a 5 point Simpson racing harness - it's designed for high speed impact, and the Release is designed to be immediate and total - all five let go at once. Good if you are semi conscious in a fire; even better if someone is coming to rescue you and can just yank the single release.

 

Not sure if there are suitable race shops out west, but you should be able to get a harness online. (I'd also check the US price)

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Thanks for the input, people. Six-point harness is firming as my preference; a pair of straps joining before the buckle, and passing either side of the Crown Jewels.

 

 

[turboplanner]

We did have one case of castration which occurred in a vertical, inverted impact.

 

Not sure whether it was five or 6 point, probably five.

 

In that case the guy had a habit of checking his harness on the roll round before the start by pulling his shoulder harness tight, which left his waist adjustment less tight.

 

The inverted impact was almost totally take by his shoulders which broke his back and left him a paraplegic.

 

Just how he was castrated in the impact was a mystery.

 

With a six point you have two chances of detaching the crown jewels instead of one.

 

Aside from what I said above, submarining is usually low impact, indicated by the fact that you are moving down and through the waist belt which is progressively going to increase the squeeze of your stomach etc.

 

 

[Marty_d]

OK, can you keep us informed of the results of your harness search? I'm also interested.

 

TP, thanks for the cringeworthy story. Almost as bad as the one a mate (OH&S expert) told me last night about a metalworker who somehow managed to get one of the jewels between hammer and anvil.

 

 

[old man emu]

Nutcracker! Suite!

 

OME

 

 

[Marty_d]

I'm assuming it was more of a "squish" than a "crack", but a total balls-up either way.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...With a six point you have two chances of detaching the crown jewels instead of one...

Ouch! Turbs that got my attention. One Crow harness appears to have its lower straps wider than most; it looks like they go either side of the legs:

 

 

[turboplanner]

My eyes are still watering Marty!

 

OK, I'd ask how they work. If they are attached permanently to those buckles, then when you sit down the waist strap will come across your pelvis and the smaller strap across your leg. To me you could still submarine, but the mounting positions they set may squeeze you enough.

 

 

[Marty_d]

From the pic I'd say you step through the waist/leg straps which look like they're permanently attached, latch them, then your shoulder ones come down through the loops near the buckle and latch in also. Submarining can't occur and hopefully the jewels are safe as the sideways pressure of the straps is in an outward direction.

 

Looks good for a cockpit you step down into but wonder how it'd work for normal side-entry cabin.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Problem with that is that you have to be dragged out through them, and if there's a fire you only have seconds to get someone out who may have a broken leg.

 

That's what I like about Simpson - one pull and you're out of it and running.

 

 

[Marty_d]

I used to carry a hook knife when hang gliding to cut away the strap if necessary - does anyone carry one in their plane?

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I used to carry a hook knife when hang gliding to cut away the strap if necessary - does anyone carry one in their plane?

Leatherman

 

 

[Guernsey]

I used to carry a hook knife when hang gliding to cut away the strap if necessary - does anyone carry one in their plane?

Good if you are endowed with large jewels as you can cut them off to help aid your evacuation.

 

Alan.

 

 

[Oscar]

The FIA/SFI requirements for a 5 or 6-point harness slightly exceed the FAA requirements for the shoulder-straps; in all other respects the FAA requirements are a direct adaption of the FIA requirements. However, the materials for the camlocks, adjusters and anchors can add more than a kg per belt if you choose the 'wrong' ones. Also, for most small aircraft situations, you will need 'pull-up' adjusters for the lap and crotch belts and 'pull-down' for the shoulder belts to get optimum security.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Good if you are endowed with large jewels as you can cut them off to help aid your evacuation.Alan.

Love how TP gave that one an "informative". Put DOWN the knife TP... no, not down there!

Don't know whether you've seen a hook knife Alan, you could probably remove an earlobe or perform a circumcision in a pinch, but you'd have to be trying very hard to fit any other bodily parts in it.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

OK, can you keep us informed of the results of your harness search? I'm also interested...

There are lots of harnesses available, with different types of release. I liked one British brand which claimed to be the lightest on the market. The £350 price didn't put me off as much as the lack of information. Some recommended brands were tempting, but call me an old grump: if the website doesn't show a phone number- even in the fine print- then I'll go somewhere that does.

 

After lots of research I found a seller prepared to take my call and answer a few questions and even put the package on the scales for me. I settled on a cheap 5-pointer, costing $142 delivered.

 

http://www.motorsportaccessories.com.au/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=523&virtuemart_category_id=3

 

It arrived today; total weight 2.5kg as promised. Heavier than I wanted, but it might have cost a few hundred dollars to save a kg.

 

The release is a bit agricultural, but looks .simple and reliable.

 

One thing I don't like is the position of the lap belt adjusters: great lumps of steel right on my hips. I might install some thick padding.

 

 

[facthunter]

If you are flying inverted in an open cockpit, it strangely becomes important that the release can't easily be accidently actuated. It might be psychological because it's not good in any kind of cockpit. The one in the DH82 had a single big pin in the middle that went some of the way to making me feel safe, because you could see the mechanism.. Nev

 

 

[Marty_d]

There are lots of harnesses available, with different types of release. I liked one British brand which claimed to be the lightest on the market. The £350 price didn't put me off as much as the lack of information. Some recommended brands were tempting, but call me an old grump: if the website doesn't show a phone number- even in the fine print- then I'll go somewhere that does.After lots of research I found a seller prepared to take my call and answer a few questions and even put the package on the scales for me. I settled on a cheap 5-pointer, costing $142 delivered.

 

http://www.motorsportaccessories.com.au/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=productdetails&virtuemart_product_id=523&virtuemart_category_id=3

 

It arrived today; total weight 2.5kg as promised. Heavier than I wanted, but it might have cost a few hundred dollars to save a kg.

 

The release is a bit agricultural, but looks .simple and reliable.

 

One thing I don't like is the position of the lap belt adjusters: great lumps of steel right on my hips. I might install some thick padding.

Looks great OK! I can see what you mean about the adjustment positions but I do like the "agricultural" release.

 

I'll need to get one with a Y branch at the top so the shoulder straps can join together and link to cables which runs through the baggage shelf and half way down the fuselage. (Kind of like this):

 

 

There's no hard points on the 701 for 4 point harnesses, so this modification just moves the side bracket down the fuselage top corner until it's longitudinally in line with the centre of each seat. Red lines on the diagram below might be clearer.

 

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...There's no hard points on the 701 for 4 point harnesses...[ATTACH=full]35691[/ATTACH]

That's a bit of a problem, Marty. Seems like a slight oversight on the part of the designer. I used your solution on my BRS harness. The cables are anchored on the rear wing attachment points.

Looks like your 701 has slats. Are they fixed or automatically deployed like Handley Page?

 

The tailplane seems quite narrow, presumably for trailering.

 

 

[jetjr]

Was it Oscar doing some work on better harness for Jabiru?