turboplanner Posted May 20, 2015 Posted May 20, 2015 Oh I understand exactly what's being proffered. After the bond has broken, over time the back and forwards movement will grind it smooth and eventually slip around.Sure, that may be 100 years and millions of cycles ..... but maybe not. Who knows, you guys are only guessing and you have no empirical evidence available, that's the problem. You may have sealed up some static pipes, but this joint has constant cyclic shear stress applied along with constant expansion/contraction at different material rates trying to tear it apart - even when it's just sitting. Just leaving aside the Morgan design, and talking about the principle of using FRP and steel or aluminium in combination. There is no bond to break; you'd have as much success bonding FRP to aluminium with polyester resin as getting a pelican to breathe under water. There has to be a mechanical entrapment As far as "guessing" and "no empirical evidence available", I can tell you about the design of one piece moulded, frame-free sandwich construction refrigerate vans where Australia leads the world, because I was directly involved in it. When you see one of these on the road, have a look at the refrigeration unit, it's bolted to two pieces of MS flat enclosed in the FRP. In the semi trailer refrigerated vans, the lights, heavy duty door hinges and cam locks are all bolted to small, localised steel plates, as are the skid plate and the tri axle suspension. The one piece FRP box is structural, has no chassis. About 14.5 tonnes static load is going through the skid plate and about 17 tonnes through the tri axle suspension. As for empirical evidence, the first of these went on the road about 50 years ago; most are still in service.
old man emu Posted May 20, 2015 Posted May 20, 2015 Referring to Australian designs being built under licence in China, has anyone heard how Brumby is getting on doing that? They were going to manufacture their two-seater in China and concentrate on their 4-seater at Cowra. Has anyone go any info about that? OME
Geoff13 Posted May 21, 2015 Posted May 21, 2015 Just leaving aside the Morgan design, and talking about the principle of using FRP and steel or aluminium in combination.There is no bond to break; you'd have as much success bonding FRP to aluminium with polyester resin as getting a pelican to breathe under water. There has to be a mechanical entrapment As far as "guessing" and "no empirical evidence available", I can tell you about the design of one piece moulded, frame-free sandwich construction refrigerate vans where Australia leads the world, because I was directly involved in it. When you see one of these on the road, have a look at the refrigeration unit, it's bolted to two pieces of MS flat enclosed in the FRP. In the semi trailer refrigerated vans, the lights, heavy duty door hinges and cam locks are all bolted to small, localised steel plates, as are the skid plate and the tri axle suspension. The one piece FRP box is structural, has no chassis. About 14.5 tonnes static load is going through the skid plate and about 17 tonnes through the tri axle suspension. As for empirical evidence, the first of these went on the road about 50 years ago; most are still in service. [ATTACH=full]35748[/ATTACH] FTE I think it was pioneered that setup, although I may be wrong. I can't recall seeing to many still around over 15-20 years old though.
turboplanner Posted May 21, 2015 Posted May 21, 2015 FTE I think it was pioneered that setup, although I may be wrong. I can't recall seeing to many still around over 15-20 years old though. Reinforced Plastics Pty Ltd built the first and converted the market from the much less efficient steel/aluminium framed vans, and were joined by Athol Hedges Pty Ltd, a Brisbane based builder. FTE was started some years later by the RP General Manager, and one of the draftsmen, still make them, and do a magnificent job. Some of the 1965 vans have been on 7 or 8 cab/chassis, and usually the only maintenance required is a repaint. A few have been lost in major accidents, and several more failed after minor skin damage which was not repaired, allowing water in to the sandwich panel destroying it. I keep a watch around the eastern states, the old ones - RP and Athold Hedges can be identified by their front clearance light recesses, and I'd suggest that about 80% of all production is still in operation.
Geoff13 Posted May 21, 2015 Posted May 21, 2015 Reinforced Plastics Pty Ltd built the first and converted the market from the much less efficient steel/aluminium framed vans, and were joined by Athol Hedges Pty Ltd, a Brisbane based builder.FTE was started some years later by the RP General Manager, and one of the draftsmen, still make them, and do a magnificent job. Some of the 1965 vans have been on 7 or 8 cab/chassis, and usually the only maintenance required is a repaint. A few have been lost in major accidents, and several more failed after minor skin damage which was not repaired, allowing water in to the sandwich panel destroying it. I keep a watch around the eastern states, the old ones - RP and Athold Hedges can be identified by their front clearance light recesses, and I'd suggest that about 80% of all production is still in operation. Thank you. Yes the FTE's also stand out for a similar reason with the lights. Yes I am aware of many bodies that are in use with plenty of age on them, I was actually referring to the full trailer setups that I don't see to often any more. I know that they are far better design to tow both empty and loaded than any of the earlier full chassis designs. The FTE's in particular (I only mention them because I had plenty of practice with them.) had far better cooling ability than any other van I towed as well. So much so that and FTE van could carry a load of icecream from Perth to Brisbane and use less than half the fuel in the Fridge motor of an equivalent maxicube trailer.
DGL Fox Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 I thought Morgan where no longer selling #24 aircraft after they failed their ATSM certification. A kit aircraft is only as good as the engineer that builds it. Does anyone know if Garry is able to build and sell the Sierra 200 as a factory build LSA aircraft now? I see that at one stage they took his accreditation to build these as a 24 registered away. David
Guest asmol Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 nope, kits only, no more factory built down there.
Dwilly Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 Is there any information on the accident involving a sierra aircraft in July 2014 at Barlings Beach where 2 people were killed
facthunter Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 Failure of security of outer "Bowden" cable for elevators, I believe. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I think it's on RAAus files. Nev
Dwilly Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 thanks Nev This incident has been overlooked in past discussions How do I access The RAA report
Dwilly Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 Sorry Nev I am new to all this what do you mean?
Camel Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 Is there any information on the accident involving a sierra aircraft in July 2014 at Barlings Beach where 2 people were killed Bottom of the page, https://www.raa.asn.au/members/accident-incident-summaries-2014/ There is information that was provided about cable lock nut requiring an access hole to be cut to inspect tightness of locking nut. I have also been made aware of another factor which I don't want to post here as that has not been published I don't think.
Dwilly Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 Thanks Camel I checked out the report-continuing I am interested because I am attracted by the performance of this aircraft & am in the market. Your replies are furtive probably because of the public exposure of this site. Is there a way for us to contact discretely?
dazza 38 Posted October 4, 2015 Posted October 4, 2015 Failure of security of outer "Bowden" cable for elevators, I believe. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I think it's on RAAus files. Nev Yup that sounds about right.
kgwilson Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 Give Garry Morgan a call. He still has his blue 6 cyl Sierra and has a partially completed kit ready for an engine. Don't wait too long though. Garry has given up trying to deal with CASA & RAA so is returning to NZ next year so he can work with co-operative regulators. 1
Dwilly Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 So do I Jeff. The LSA and experimental area is like a car lot in Moorooka. Sooo many. The Morgan Sierra and Cougar appear to be great performers and Australian, which is one of my criteria for purchase.
Jeff Wallis Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 Kg.Wilson - I've had one on his ad for a screen saver and still do also his MKll Think I'd rather a camit - viking seem like a great choice or a continental for a bit extra HP. Is there a site that shows motor performance Ie speed to fuel consumption for various motors. I'm aware there's a lot of factors that contribute beside just the motor in a lot of test. Just a question?
Jeff Wallis Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 So do I Jeff. The LSA and experimental area is like a car lot in Moorooka. Sooo many. The Morgan Sierra and Cougar appear to be great performers and Australian, which is one of my criteria for purchase. Agree totally Dwilly - It grabbed my attention as soon as a spotted it. Your always going to get negative people that can't see past some more common imports and really are followers of larger names, but we need all comments positive or negative that's how we have quality and progress. What ever Gary does, I hope he doesn't stop designing and building. As for his aeronautical qualification, whether he has one or not it's a credit to his ability. Well done P.s there's a lot of people that have qualifications and don't mind telling you, that's as far is it goes, qualification doesn't give you the gift of forsite and innovation. Having a bit of paper only came into vogue 15 years ago, now you need it every where you go.
Jeff Wallis Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 Paper element filter? To the best of my knowledge the paper filters are constructed using Cotton fibre not paper ??
Jeff Wallis Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 I agree 100%. The Morgan Kit includes quality components, all AN bolts & aircraft fittings plus aircraft grade alloy extrusions and sheet. Nothing is pre-drilled bent or formed other than the bell crank and bearings for the elevator spar, the steel sub frame, chromolly front U/C leg, engine mount, & control column box. There are also a number of fibreglass mouldings which have to be filled and finished etc & a full bubble for the canopy that needs careful cutting & shaping to mount on the builder made frame.. I have almost finished my project which has, and still is, one of the most enlightening and satisfying experiences of my life to date. The strength of this airframe surpasses most others in the category and those flying have a performance envelope surpassing most of the plastic fantastics and other factory built aircraft that cost up to twice as much. My build is coming up to 4 years as I began it at Garry's factory in Taree on 24 May 2011 and total time almost 1000 hours over 460 days & 600 build photos so far. Garry is a self taught gifted aeronautical engineer who has been designing and building gliders and aircraft since the early 1980s and a simple phone call can resolve many hours of pondering and head scratching problems during the build process as I can attest. This is all part of the back up service you may find hard to get from imports even when everything is pre-drilled etcThere were certainly some build quality issues on the one that hit the ferris wheel but none attributed to that incident. The fact that both pilot & passenger walked away without a scratch is evident of the strength and impact absorpsion qualities of the aircraft. I'd like to see your construction pics??
microman Posted November 20, 2015 Posted November 20, 2015 Agree totally Dwilly - It grabbed my attention as soon as a spotted it.Your always going to get negative people that can't see past some more common imports and really are followers of larger names, but we need all comments positive or negative that's how we have quality and progress. What ever Gary does, I hope he doesn't stop designing and building. As for his aeronautical qualification, whether he has one or not it's a credit to his ability. Well done P.s there's a lot of people that have qualifications and don't mind telling you, that's as far is it goes, qualification doesn't give you the gift of forsite and innovation. Having a bit of paper only came into vogue 15 years ago, now you need it every where you go. I also agree that Gary Morgan has come up with some great aircraft - although they tend to need some mods to really make them fly nicely. We have a Cheetah on the field and after the owner had wrecked two nosewheels and props we moved the mains forward 8 in to take some of the weight off the nose, replaced the main gear with ally leaf spring and reinforced the darn near useless KR2 nosewheel leg. Now it flys beautifully. We also delivered a Sierra from down south earlier this week and it also flys well - just needs a few little mods to improve it still further. With the Rotax 912S and in-flight variable pitch Ivoprop it gets up to nearly 150 kts and will cruise at 110kts at 4000 rpm
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