Ultralight plane crash Hunter Valley

[dutchroll]

Ok all i accept your reasoning ,,,BUT i would still like to know , has an RAA plane at anytime ever killed anyone on the ground from a crash ,{and i,m not talking about some dumb **** walking into a prop } i,m talking about this...... oh **** big danger attitude that dutchroll is talking about of other people being KILLED by an RAA plane ,i know GA has had a few ,but what about an RAA plane ,can anyone tell me of actual incidents ,,or has it never happened ????thanks

It is true that there are no fatalities from crashing an RAAus registered craft into a building and I wasn't trying to imply there actually had been. There was the one which crashed into a house in Tyabb last year and seriously injured the 5 year old girl who was a passenger (a 5 year old "accepting the risk" is another topic). There was the one which narrowly missed a jetty in Queensland.

But all this is completely dancing around the point I'm making. The perception is that these things are falling out of the sky at an alarming rate in recent times. I'm just saying that the public might latch onto this in a way which has adverse consequences for your RA freedom, particularly if it continues at the current rate, irrespective of whether there are actually any deaths other than the pilot. That's all.

 

You don't have to like it, but I held much the same view about Jabiru engines. Understandably people came out from everywhere to defend their beloved Jabirus, screaming that there was no need for regulatory intervention, they've done "xxx" number of hours without incident, etc etc etc. Jabiru (the company) had their heads stuck up their own **ses thinking "oh there's not really any problem. There's no way they'll come after us. It can't be justified."

 

......and lo and behold, look what happened.

 

It doesn't matter how many people die in cars, or day to day activities. Things plummeting from the sky scares people. A lot. I know the grim reality of the aviation world when I see it!

 

 

[Downunder]

Some pictures: http://www.maitlandmercury.com.au/story/3099548/lovedale-cafe-owner-tells-of-fatal-plane-crash-photos/?cs=171#slide=12

Pic 7. What engine? 6 cyl. Black rocker covers. Prop looks meaty.....

 

 

[farri]

not posting dumb sh.t like aviation is dangerous and we know the risks so we should be left to our own devices. Aldo

Aldo, Maybe you shouldn`t be posting a line like the one I`ve quoted!....If anyone has said, "aviation is dangerous and we should be left to our own devices" I`ve missed it!.... All I`v ever said is, once a pilot has made an informed decision to go flying, the responsibility of what occurs, rests with them.

 

Frank.

 

 

 

[Happyflyer]

Pic 7. What engine? 6 cyl. Black rocker covers. Prop looks meaty.....

Yes, it would be interesting to see the weight of this aircraft and stall speeds to see if could have possibly been RAAus registered.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Pic 7. What engine? 6 cyl. Black rocker covers. Prop looks meaty.....

Looks like a UL Power 6 cylinder.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Pic 7. What engine? 6 cyl. Black rocker covers. Prop looks meaty.....

Yeah i picked up on that as well constant speed prop, hard to tell can't download the photo and blow it up, but either looks like a Continental or Lycoming and that's a lot of horsepower 225/230hp and weight for an RAAus aircraft maybe.

 

edit,

 

If it is a UL six cyl and just looking at the op manual for it, the exhaust looks similar to the press photo. If so they are 140/160/180/200 hp. Constant speed prop for them available?

 

 

[dazza 38]

Looks like a UL Power 6 cylinder.

Actually, I will bet my left nut on it. I just checked their web site, it has black rocker covers and the exhaust looks exactly the same.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Just did the same but can't find anything on what prop types they are using. Not a cheap engine either.

 

 

[Aldo]

Aldo, Maybe you shouldn`t be posting a line like the one I`ve quoted!....If anyone has said, "aviation is dangerous and we should be left to our own devices" I`ve missed it!.... All I`v ever said is, once a pilot has made an informed decision to go flying, the responsibility of what occurs, rests with them.

Frank.

Frank

 

That was not directed at you, take a look at post #42 wording may not have been exact (apologies for that) but the inflection is the same.

 

Aldo

 

 

[gareth lacey]

UL engines typically have an American prop from Prince props , they are well made and meaty , my condolences to the family. does anyone know what type of plane ?

 

cheers gareth

 

 

[jetjr]

Pic 7. What engine? 6 cyl. Black rocker covers. Prop looks meaty.....

Yep looks like UL 6 cyl

Smallest is 140 hp

 

$27K

 

100kg

 

 

[farri]

No apology needed, Aldo! I respect what you are saying. I`ve gone back and read post #42 again.

 

Frank

 

 

[biggles]

Wasn't me either Frank ..... Bob.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Prince props have a good reputation and are used on many aircraft including a replacement for the bi plane props used on the Rotax 185 powered Lazairs.

 

Also SBS reported parachute did not open. Was aircraft fitted with a BRS or pilot wearing slimpak?

 

 

[biggles]

Bob, I assume you are referring to the Jabiru engine, if so, I see that issue completely different to the accidents that are occurring..... The engine issue applied to multiple aircraft, whereas, each accident has it`s own set of circumstances.Regardless of how well meaning everyone is, me included, about continuing to to stress the safety message, the fact is, the high percentage of accidents are occurring to trained adults, some with a huge amount of experience, not some young guy, with very little experience! There`s been a couple of those also but that`s not my point, the point is, adults should be capable of making their own decisions and wearing the consequences!

 

I sincerely hope CASA acts accordingly and I believe they should, after all! There are two men in CASA positions, who came from an AUF/RA-Aus background. Lea Ungerman, (Spelling?) was instructing with an Ultralight aircraft, when I was instructing. If I recall accurately, it was a Thruster.

 

Frank.

Hmmm Frank, I've had a look at that post again and can see it could be misconstrued . When I said ..... "Many people would support that stand " I was referring to CASA taking firm action like they did with Jabiru powered a/c , and " people " referring to the general public ....... Bob

 

 

[biggles]

Anyway Frank this is what I did today . That's Bass Strait in the background with the small settlement of Loch Sport in the centre facing Lake Victoria . The point on the headland in the foreground is Waddy Point .

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Few different brands of props now available for them now.

 

 

[pylon500]

does anyone know what type of plane ?

Motor was a UL-6, not sure what power, 140 I think?

Not sure of the prop, but constant speed, note also one blade fully intact, ie; not turning on impact?

 

The plane was a CLONE of a Cheetah/Sierra, before people start pointing at Gary.

 

Most likely too many problems all at once for the pilot to handle, ie; engine fails, not a lot of height, not knowing it's glide performance, looking for somewhere to land, trying to restart?, stall/spin before chance to pull chute...

 

Can't comment on registration status.

 

We'll just have to wait...

 

 

[facthunter]

"Falling out of the sky" is a bit of an extreme statement for people who should know better. It might be appropriate for a structural failure but how often does that happen? When the donk stops you glide, usually with a sink rate of about 600 fpm. Hardly falling out of the sky. It's about 10 Miles per hour . descent. Nev.

 

 

[DonRamsay]

BullThere were two reports, the first one said the driver a former pilot found it as he was driving down the road the second report said that all 60 (I think that was the number quoted) of the customers heard it immediately stood and raced into the paddock to investigate or something to that extent. . . .

The number "60" came, I think, from the fact that the people at the Cafe were celebrating a 60th birthday.

The plane came down in a very dense stand of trees not very far (approx 150 m) from very high voltage power lines and on the other side of the road to the cafe/shop.

 

The 10 metres is ridiculous that would have had the plane crashing in the carpark in the front yard of the Cafe. The cafe/shop is set back about 50 metres from the road and the plane crashed on the other side of the road some many metres into the bush. There is no way you could see the wreck from the cafe.

 

Trust the media to get it wrong.

 

 

[Downunder]

I'm thinking built as a single seater to offset the engine weight it could be RAA (or potential RAA). Want to be thinking hard about balance though.....

 

 

[DonRamsay]

. . . The plane was a CLONE of a Cheetah/Sierra, before people start pointing at Gary.

"Clone" is probably a bit strong. I believe he had built a Morgan from a kit previously and this one had some similarities but plenty of differences.

 

Most likely too many problems all at once for the pilot to handle, ie; engine fails, not a lot of height, not knowing it's glide performance, looking for somewhere to land, trying to restart?, stall/spin before chance to pull chute . . .

Looks like he was a long way downwind past the end of the runway and a bit wide as well.

 

Could have been turning base . . . but as Pylon says, "We'll just have to wait."

 

And you could add "we'll probably never know"

 

Speculation is not a waste of time as it is a bit like thinking out loud. Questioning how it might have happened is a bit like asking how could I avoid getting into this situation.

 

 

[rotor]

After reading three pages and not finding out anything at all about this accident .... anyone got any "facts" at all concerning this accident?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

There aren't a lot of facts apart from the incident looking like an EFATO with the worst possible outcome.

 

 

[frank marriott]

There aren't a lot of facts apart from the incident looking like an EFATO with the worst possible outcome.

EFATO? I obviously have no idea but reports above imply incident occurred at the end of the downwind leg.