Tail dragger experience

[Happyflyer]

Happy flyer, years ago when everyone flew tigers you would rarely see a wheeler done. I trained initially at district park Newcastle. A remarkably small aerodrome where you could easily run out of space to land. the x wind component is only about 9 Knots and if you arrived somewhere like Pt Macquarie you had to cop what was there on the day. If you do a touchdown with the wingtip and tailskid just off the surface you are in a good position to NOT groundloop ( at least at any significant speed).. I was lucky to get the opportunity to instruct in the DH 82 before it disappeared from flying schools.When you instruct you get to see the plane at it's limit now and again as I was getting people who hadn't flown tailwheel who thought the rudder pedals were for resting your feet on sometimes.

I agree that in gusty conditions it may be safer to wheel it on as you are more in control on final approach. I don't know about the Beech 18 but the DC3 wasn't three pointed.

 

I actually consider the 3 point on the Tiger to be much easier to judge. The speed washes off pretty quickly and the stick comes back in a short time, if you aren't carrying excess speed..

 

I've seen people using a lot of runway wheeling it on. Nev

Agree Nev. Three pointers definitely the go for shortfield, even more so when Tigers all had skids. Wheelers must result in longer landings but some people think a wheeler landing must be done at almost supersonic speeds. I try for tail low wheelers most times and this results in quite short landings.

 

 

[Roundsounds]

I don't know where the warp speed approach technique came from? The best way is to fly the same approach as you would for a three pointer, but delay reducing power in the flare.

 

 

[dutchroll]

A wheeler in my plane could easily cost you a prop overhaul and an engine strip. Somewhere in the vicinity of $40k!

 

 

[geoffreywh]

Try a Jodel, there cannot be a more benign tail dragger to fly and land, even I can do it!....

 

 

[SDQDI]

Try a Jodel, there cannot be a more benign tail dragger to fly and land, even I can do it!....

Even our local 'Old Koreela' can fly a jodel, that has to be saying something:stirrer:

Personally I think doing a tailwheel endorsement would benefit everyone (I'm certainly not saying make it mandatory!!) even if you only ever fly nose wheel. The more I get around and fly with others (I'm a low hours pilot and by no means an expert!) the more it surprises me how little attention is given to the rudder by the majority of nose wheel pilots. Now I'm not suggesting the majority of them are bad pilots it's just that they can get away with it 'most' of the time and get rudder lazy.

 

I started my training in a j3 cub (and enjoyed every minute of it....... Well maybe had a nervous one or two:blush:) so rudder input was a must and zigzagging to see where I was taxiing gave me plenty of practice, BUT I then did my cross country endo in a nose wheel SportsStar. After I finished that endo even though only a handful of hours I went back and did some circuits in the cub and was so surprised at how dead my legs had gotten.

 

I know there are some who don't like tail wheels but I think if more people did learn in one (doesn't have to be original training, an endorsement later on is just as good) it would help instil some good skills into the toolbox so to speak that can be handy in a lot of situations.

 

 

[Roundsounds]

I reckon if you have the chance to do your initial flight training in a taildragger take it. You'll learn some great skills:

 

• being aware of surface wind speed and direction - starting on the drive to the airport and ending after you've secured the aircraft in a hangar or tied it down.
   
   
  
• Anticipating turns, minimising use of brakes whilst taxiing or else you'll wear them out!
   
   
  
• How to control the effects of slipstream and P factor - modern trainers tend to display only subtle effects
   
   
  
• At times you will need full rudder to keep the aeroplane straight, this comes in handy on multi-engine aeroplanes in the event of an engine failure on takeoff.
   
   
  
• Understanding / anticipating adverse yaw and how to fly an aeroplane in balance (again, helps with control during asymmetric flight)
   
   
  
• Taildraggers are often aerobatic - therefore good spin awareness trainers
   
   
  
• Most taildraggers side-slip well, side slipping is an essential skill for crosswind operations - whether you use crab, wing down or combination technique
   
   
  
• Speed control and aim point retention on final approach is essential if you're going to land without running out of runway doing three point landings
   
   
  
• Establishing a consistent landing attitude, each tailwheel type has only 1 attitude for a three point landing. Nose wheel types will accept almost any attitude and inconsistent results
   
   
  
• Correct use of controls during rollout on landing - most nose wheel aeroplanes will accept letting go of controls, which may bite you one day.
   
   
  

 

 

These are a few of the basic skills I believe a taildragger demands of pilots. These skills are not beyond the average trainee, taildraggers are just not tolerant of slack pilots or instructors whereas tricycles can be most of the time.

 

 

[Geoff13]

If my Children ever wanted to learn to fly, I would look for a taildragger for them. Possibly a Drifter, that is the only taildragger that I have flown. There are skills I learned in the Drifter that I probably would not have learned had I not flown it. People that I have come to respect assume that I picked the Foxbat to learn in because it was easy. Nothing could be further from the truth. I picked the Foxbat because it could carry my weight. I did not know anything about nosewheel/taildragger. As far as I was concerned they were all airplanes. How wrong can you be.

 

 

[Akromaster]

I've watched with interest a couple of the Jodels that have come up for sale. Interesting little plane and quite a lot written about it. Also seems pretty docile although sounds like you have to get approach pretty spot on otherwise you can float a long way down the runway. I like this video of a kiwi guy and his dog:

 

Most planes I've flown have required very little rudder for coordinated flight (except the Topaz) and barely any more in full power climb...On the ground, rudder is coupled to nose wheel so it's a case of "keeping feet still" to keep plane rolling down the middle. I suspect most folks will be in the same boat.

 

It's interesting to read some of your experiences...sounds like some "being thrown into the deep end" (ala dutchroll and the winjeel) to a more gentle build up like Kaz & Yenn.

 

 

[dutchroll]

...sounds like some "being thrown into the deep end" (ala dutchroll and the winjeel) to a more gentle build up like Kaz & Yenn.

Minor correction: I don't like being thrown into the deep end! I was sort of "asked" - in a traditional military kind of way - to do a quick and dirty conversion onto the Winjeel because they temporarily needed another pilot. Actually there had just been two fatal accidents involving stalling in a turn at low level, so most of the instruction concentrated on the Winjeel's major vice of occasionally flipping itself upside down in a stall. The circuit work actually wasn't too hard, believe it or not.

 

 

[facthunter]

There's no doubt a tri gear has advantages in ease of landing and directional control (Unless you put excess load onto the nosewheel when you may wheelbarrow quick time.

 

If you had a school full of T/W types you would be repairing some of them a lot.

 

Where your wheels are compared to the CofG is the cause.

 

The plane will be directionally unstable when what is gripping the earth is in front of the CofG. The more distance the bigger the turning effect, and the more directional problems

 

On landing a similar effect on pitching up with ground contact. Any real ROD at contact and the effect is there. This is on top of a bounce resulting from the spring (s) absorbing energy and giving it back putting you in the air again.

 

So you may have a bounce and a pitchup with a tailwheel aircraft.

 

With a nosewheel you get the bounce (if you deserve it) but a pitch forward IF you land on the mainwheels (which is good as it corrects a problem.)

 

With a 3 pointer on a tailwheel the little wheel at the back tends to stop the pitch up so the plane stays nearer the ground after contact.

 

Hope that explains some things. Nev

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

I've watched with interest a couple of the Jodels that have come up for sale. Interesting little plane and quite a lot written about it. Also seems pretty docile although sounds like you have to get approach pretty spot on otherwise you can float a long way down the runway. I like this video of a kiwi guy and his dog....

Good to see people are starting to realise bent wings are best...

Nice clip Akro, but I was always told aeroplanes and dogs don't mix.

 

 

[Akromaster]

aeroplanes and dogs don't mix.

...let me just caveat that and say "I do not endorse it". But it was a cool video...especially the "man and his dog" thing. There'd be no chance for me and my lab...too fat and too excitable.

 

 

[facthunter]

You could claim your plane is Lab Tested. Nev

 

 

[Guernsey]

What about in a Dog Fight?

 

 

[Soleair]

Reminds me of my time in a J3 Cub converting to tailwheel.

 

The owner arrived on his motorbike with his little Yorkshire terrier riding on the fuel tank. After the ground briefing, the little dog jumped up into the baggage compartment above & behind the aft ('driver's') seat.

 

I then spent the next hour or so doing circuits & bumps with a hot licky dog tongue in my ear.

 

I quite enjoyed it. And the aeroplane.

 

Bruce

 

 

[facthunter]

I need assurance that no animals were harmed in the making of this story. Does that get my green credentials established ft? If any harm was done we will have to cancel the Dog's licker licence. Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

Ive just flown the Corby after a bit of a break, flying the RV and I realised that the feet have a hell of a lot of action in the landing roll. I actually thought about what I was doing, hadn't realised how busy I have been without actually thinking about it,

 

 

[facthunter]

Yeah.. I sort of admire people who fly Corby Starlets. (Now you will get a big head.) Nev

 

 

[RV6JOY]

Hi Akromaster, from experience I will say the Thorp T18 is really no harder to land than an RV6 and in some ways easier. Certainly easier in a cross wind. The T18 rudder is much more powerful than the RV rudder despite it's very small size.

 

I have over 800 hours in the T18 and the same in RVs. My tail wheel endorsement was in a Whittman Tailwind and I first started flying the T18 on my navex's with only 45 hours total plus some sailplane hours. So very low hours.

 

I have flown 6 different T18s, one was twitchy on the ground due to having the steering springs too tight to the rudder. They need to be loose.

 

If you touch tail first in the T18 you can pull the stick back hard and pin the tail wheel to the ground, the wing will stall before lifting off. You can't do that in the RV6, it will rear up on you.

 

As far as farm strips go the T18 is very capable despite the stiff undercarriage. Many of my landing were into a bumpy farm strip of 550 metres with the approach over trees 20 metres high overhanging the threshold.

 

There are some really cheap T18s for sale and in my opinion they represent great value.

 

The ride comfort in turbulence is far better in the T18, similar to a Bonanza.

 

I could always get in and out of any strip my mates in RVs were using.

 

The original Sensenich wood prop that was common on the early T18s gives no acceleration and is dangerous, the Sensenich metal RV props are the way to go. I prefer a light O320 T18 to the heavier O360 with CSU.

 

As you can see, though I now fly an RV6 I still love the T18!

 

 

[facthunter]

In a lot of earlier "business mans" (performance) single engine tailwheel aircraft the rudder is masked somewhat when the tail is down and the engine idling when rolling after touchdown. (Some of the faster ones had small rudders)

 

Holding the stick right back and relying more on the steerable tailwheel than the rudder is the aim. You need to have the tailwheel set up properly.

 

The same applies when commencing the take off roll. Don't be in a hurry to lift the tail up unless you have a powerful rudder. Nev