Dick Smith - Hero, I think not

[facthunter]

I'll take your word for it. I'm very attached to mine too. Nev

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Gee Whizz. . . . . Had no idea that uncle Dick was a figure of such love/hate controversy in Aus. . . . .just goes to show how much general news we DON'T get in the UK. . . . . from our wonderfully aloof and impartial BBC . . . .

 

Quite an education it is. . . . . .

 

Maybe the newshounds should troll this forum. . . .loads of useful gen here. . . . .

 

 

[Admin]

Maybe the newshounds should troll this forum

they very much do

 

 

[Phil Perry]

they very much do

Hmmm. . . .Thanks for that Ian,. . . .Shame THEY DON'T learn from it ! ! ! ! ! ( Apparently. . .! or am I being my usual cynical self again. . . .? )

 

 

[Camel]

Saw him on TV this morning and was not impressed, I think he needs to get interested in other peoples opinions as well as he is not really trying to make things better, he wants more controlled airspace ! He blames CASA, Fact is there are more accidents in controlled airspace ! And that is not always directly related to the increase in traffic, when pilots communicate on CTAF they get better situational awareness ! His comments were misleading and not representing a true method of increasing safety. His National Airspace Reform in 2003 was terrible. The only part I liked is when he picked on W. Truss, as I'm well and truly over his lack of interest in real issues !

 

 

[Birdseye]

Saw him on TV this morning and was not impressed, I think he needs to get interested in other peoples opinions

There you hit the nail on the head. He is not the slightest bit interested in other people's opinions, he is only interested in Dick's opinion.

 

 

[rick-p]

YennI think if you start to do a little research on Dick Smith you will find he is not as patriotic as he likes to make out, one such article (published by Steve Creedy) in the Australian Smith suggests that to remain in the airline game QANTAS should move everything it can to China how is this good for Australia and how does it benefit Australian workers and how is that patriotic?

 

Part of my business is manufacturing equipment and I have all our equipment made in Australia might cost me a little more but I'm supporting Australia, I also take my holidays in Australia supporting Australians that's what I call patriotic not just talking about it.

 

Aldo

Qantas want to get their act together and stop being a bunch of money grubbing pigs protrudors.

 

As for taking holidays in Australia that's OK if you don't mind getting ripped off by foreigners but I prefer to go OS and have them do it on their own home ground. :-)

 

 

[facthunter]

It's always better to be ripped off in your own language. Nev

 

 

[Phil Perry]

It's always better to be ripped off in your own language. Nev

Been ripped off this week in London. . . .try buying a cup of coffee in central Lahndon,. . . . .geez,. . . .for what I paid for two of those, I could have set up my own stockbroker business inT North . . . . How can NINE QUID for two cups of froth be justifiable or "Reasonable". . .? . . .and some of those silly London working people pay that every morning for a take away and run to work drink. . . . no wonder the wages are higher in our illustrious capital Sitty. . . .

 

 

[turboplanner]

Problem solved out here; you can now buy a 3/4 Latte. You can look the part on the street, have a lower fat and caffeine intake, and save some money.

 

What is amazing though is people buying bottled tap water and paying more than for petrol, milk, or any number of complex drinks.

 

 

[Phil Perry]

Problem solved out here; you can now buy a 3/4 Latte. You can look the part on the street, have a lower fat and caffeine intake, and save some money.What is amazing though is people buying bottled tap water and paying more than for petrol, milk, or any number of complex drinks.

Hmm,. . . .yes Sir,. . .I have to agree with that one,. . . I can admit freely and without fear of telling porkies,. . .that I have NEVER descended to the nadir of stupidity and actually BOUGHT a bottle of water.

 

OK, if I was on holiday in, er,. . .let's say, . .er,. . .India ?. . . or some other third world country like that, with it's own super military and space programme, but the government of same cannot be bothered to pay for simple basic niceties like clean drinking water for the general population, then . . . . I would pay for clean water. . . .rather than waste my vacation in bed suffering from montezuma's revenge. . . . but not here in a "Civilised" ( ? ) country like wot where I live,. . . . . no,. . .just silliness. . . .and yet sales of so called "Mineral Water" is in the hundreds of millions per year. . .? what's that all about I wonder. . .?

 

Well,. . .I'm looking forward to the new "Burger King" restaurant / takeaway being built a mile down the road from where I live,. . .at least their burgers are really good Aberdeen Angus Beef. . . .bit more expensive, but better than the reconstituted pet food burgers at McWhatsits. . . . . . . ( See Ian,. . . .I always make sure you don't get any legal actions. . . .)

 

 

[turboplanner]

Congratulations to Dick this morning for getting an Order of Australia award.

 

Main reason was his philanthropy and contribution to Australia.

 

Among other things he started the Variety Bash, which over the years has raised $200 million for charity.

 

 

[Rotorwork]

Dick is a really nice guy

 

He has been great for Tasmania & always welcome here.

 

Also good to see he received the Companion (AC) of The Order of Australia in the

 

Queens Birthday Honours list today.

 

Well done Dick

 

Regards R W

 

 

[fly_tornado]

He's a paradox isn't he, sells his business to woolies, then complains about woolies ability to abuse small business due to market share (that he helped create).

 

Abbott tries to buy him off with an CAoA and then he announces this...

 

http://www.news.com.au/national/dick-smith-says-he-is-considering-running-against-tony-abbott-at-the-next-election/story-fncynjr2-1227387738646

 

 

[Yenn]

I bought water once in Dhubai airport. What a rip off, but they have you by the short and curlies.

 

In Indones filled my water bottle from a rainwater tank. Shock, horror. The locls thought I was mad and my fellow travellers wouldn't follow suit. It was raining and the tank was overflowing, I wonder why they had a tank if nobody was game to use it.

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

It is always depressing to read Australian aviation websites like this. So many parading their wilful ignorance for the world to see for eternity (the Internet never forgets)

 

and insulting people who have done more for Australian pilots than they themselves will ever do.

 

Aldo, the reason the FSO system was done away with was that we couldn't afford it. General revenue wasn't going to support it and the cost impost would kill private flying. Too bad about the FSOs losing their jobs. My heart bleeds. I could get all choked up and there may even be tears. /sarc off

 

For the other people out there, the USA doesn't have radar everywhere but Class E airspace means that WHEN IN IMC the IFR guys get separation from each other. There aren't any VFR bugsmashers in IMC, by definition. When in VMC even though you may have filed IFR you are required to maintain a lookout but will get advisories about VFR traffic and separation from other IFR. You also don't need a transponder in Class E if you are VFR in the USA unless above 10000 feet AMSL or under Class B in the lower levels. Note most of the Class B and Class C in the US only goes out to 30nm from the airport in the US. Have a look at the Sacramento sectional http://flightaware.com/resources/airport/KSMF/sectional

 

Note also the lack of any control zone around Travis AFB (it is in an "Alert" area like our Danger areas). Look up Fort Rucker Alabama for extra points (US Army Aviation Headquarters and main training facility). I did this some months ago. Class D to 2500 feet above surface (you can fly OVER it)and 5nm radius. The instrument approach to the NW is protected by Class E from the ground up but you can putter through there in your J-3 Cub without a transponder. Having said that, I'd fit one as many US glider pilots have done even though for them it isn't compulsory (no engine driven generator).

 

Dick Smith is arguing THAT WHERE THERE IS RADAR COVERAGE there should be Class E so that the IFR traffic receives the actual benefit of existing infrastructure. Pretty simple really.

 

I've flown in the US a few times in gliders and powered aircraft. What a wonderful , friendly experience compared to Australia. The other difference is that we have far fewer airports and much less aviation which really ought to mean fewer rules and restrictions.

 

Here, though, everything not mandatory is banned. How wonderful.

 

It is also obvious that the reason that it is like that here is that Australian pilots want it that way (see any Australian aviation forum when somebody suggests relaxing some rule). Too timid and unwilling to accept responsibility for their own actions. They want heaps of rules so that when they screw up they can cry "but I followed all the rules!" instead of making good, safe decisions appropriate to the circumstances.

 

Pathetic really.

 

 

[Marty_d]

Just be careful when you buy your bottled water in countries like India. We went for a trip to Sri Lanka (my dad was born there) and saw street kids filling water bottles from a tap down the street, then taking them to shops to be sold to foreigners.

 

 

[graham brown]

Dick Smith is arguing THAT WHERE THERE IS RADAR COVERAGE there should be Class E so that the IFR traffic receives the actual benefit of existing infrastructure. Pretty simple really.

However VHF radio-equipped VFR aircraft (including RA-Aus/HGFA/ASRA aircraft) may operate in Class E airspace without an Air Traffic clearance, but the pilot must:

 

• maintain a listening watch on an appropriate frequency
   
   
  
• fly VFR cruising altitudes below 10 000 feet (or cruising flight levels above the transition layer)
   
   
  
• activate anti-collision lights
   
   
  
• and the aircraft must be equipped with a properly functioning Mode A/C or S transponder with code 1200 selected and operating.
   
   
  

 

 

I think Mike sells avionics.

 

Pathetic really

 

 

[Nobody]

However VHF radio-equipped VFR aircraft (including RA-Aus/HGFA/ASRA aircraft) may operate in Class E airspace without an Air Traffic clearance, but the pilot must:

• maintain a listening watch on an appropriate frequency
   
   
  
• fly VFR cruising altitudes below 10 000 feet (or cruising flight levels above the transition layer)
   
   
  
• activate anti-collision lights
   
   
  
• and the aircraft must be equipped with a properly functioning Mode A/C or S transponder with code 1200 selected and operating.
   
   
  

 

 

I think Mike sells avionics.

 

Pathetic really

In the USA in Class E you dont need a transponder except in a few cases( above 10,000 feet, or in class e that is above or under clsss C )

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

However VHF radio-equipped VFR aircraft (including RA-Aus/HGFA/ASRA aircraft) may operate in Class E airspace without an Air Traffic clearance, but the pilot must:

• maintain a listening watch on an appropriate frequency
   
   
  
• fly VFR cruising altitudes below 10 000 feet (or cruising flight levels above the transition layer)
   
   
  
• activate anti-collision lights
   
   
  
• and the aircraft must be equipped with a properly functioning Mode A/C or S transponder with code 1200 selected and operating.
   
   
  

 

 

I think Mike sells avionics.

 

Pathetic really

Yes Graham, I sell avionics - the varios I design and manufacture, the EW Avionics Flight recorder for gliders and also National parachutes. I used to sell Filser and Terra radios back in the 1980s. I DO NOT sell radios or transponders and have no plans to do so. See here: www.borgeltinstruments.com . About 10 years ago I had a chance to manufacture or sell Flarm units in Australia but I didn't want to do that for several reasons and I'm glad I didn't.

 

So everyone here can go to my website and see what it is we sell which puts the lie to your nasty little implication that I have a vested interest in pushing transponders. In fact if a glider pilot buys a transponder he's spending money he might have spent on a new vario so it really isn't in my interest to push transponders.

 

So Graham, thanks for running off at the mouth and damaging your credibility. Everyone here can now make their own judgement.

 

I was also clearly talking about the rules that prevail in the USA where transponders are not mandatory in the Class E for VFR below 10,000 feet and aircraft without generating systems and gliders are exempt even from that requirement. I sure Dick Smith would love to simply import the USA ATC system in toto. This was the aim back in 2003/4 when we got Class E airspace for the first time and the BEGINNINGS of a transition to the US system. The transponders in Class E for VFR was part of the transition as the Class E was mostly at 8500 feet or above. The intent was to eliminate this at the lower levels as Class E became more extensive.

 

Well we all know what happened. Everybody and his dog complained, except those who had actually flown in the US. Some VFR pilots complained that they weren't REQUIRED to listen on a specific frequency (you were meant to listen on nearby CTAF frequencies to build up a picture of what was happening or on the Centre Freq if you thought it would be better, useful in the Brisbane Valley when going to or from the coast- way more useful than listening to the blather by Singapore, Emirates and Qantas about what is happening above 25000 feet). Making a reasoned decision was beyond some people it seems so they demanded it be made for them.

 

Some IFR types complained that us VFR guys wouldn't immediately spring into action and declare a conflict when an IFR guy made his descent call into a country CTAF on the area frequency. There was of course nothing stopping him from then making the call on the CTAF as he descended below 10,000 feet.

 

Our wonderful scale model armed forces claimed that much of the vast military controlled airspace would become Military Operating Areas US style where you can fly through VFR. They lied. There's a frequency to call to find out what is going on. Mostly nothing or maybe air to air refueling above 20,000 feet. If it is air to ground with rockets, bombs or cannon you might decide that flying around is a better deal. IT ISN"T a clearance if you decide to fly through.

 

Funny how all this works with vastly more aircraft and airports. The only reason the current Australian system works is because the traffic is sparse. There simply aren't enough cubic miles of air to accommodate the Australian system in the US.

 

Nobody should feel less worried about traffic avoidance when in controlled airspace. The system is designed to maintain constant risk in the various airspace classifications and in any case there have been many ATC arranged collisions.

 

Anyway, within a month of the new rules being introduced the air traffic controller trade union had organised two "serious incidents" which weren't and after only 12 months an inept and gutless Minister reverted to the old system. We will eventually pay the price for this in money and lives.

 

 

[dutchroll]

For the other people out there, the USA doesn't have radar everywhere but Class E airspace means that WHEN IN IMC the IFR guys get separation from each other.

I was the one who wrote that and if you look at a map of radar coverage in the United States you will see that the vast majority of the entire continental USA is covered by radar above 4000' (even more so if you look at it above 10,000') and it has been that way for as long as I can remember, which is back to 1989 when I first participated in exercise Red Flag at Nellis AFB, Las Vegas Nevada. It was still that way for all the trips I did to Travis AFB, for the 3 months I spent flying around Atlanta out of the Lockheed-Martin factory at Marietta Georgia, and on numerous other occasions.

 

The exceptions are some of the very remote areas of Nevada, Utah, and smaller portions of Oregon and a couple of other States. It makes a fundamental difference to ATC being able to "see" what aircraft are doing as opposed to the situation in Australia.

 

Yes Travis AFB is depicted as an "alert" area but it has a Class D tower from which you most certainly do need a clearance to transit through. While there is no "technical" requirement to talk on the radio or carry a transponder outside that in the Class E surrounding airspace you would be an absolute nut to try this on (regrettably there are plenty of those about). Try operating through A-682 (the Travis alert area) as if you were just crossing a danger area and let me know how you go! Travis Approach and Travis Tower operate 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. If you don't believe any of this, or want their opinion of VFR bugsmashers charging through A-682 without talking or squawking, contact the 60th Air Mobility Wing Flight Safety Office. I know exactly how that conversation will end.....

 

They lied. There's a frequency to call to find out what is going on. Mostly nothing or maybe air to air refueling above 20,000 feet. If it is air to ground with rockets, bombs or cannon you might decide that flying around is a better deal.

Might? You "might" decide not to fly through an MOA? I know quite a number of pilots in the USA who fly VFR and not one of them will fly through an active MOA if they can possibly avoid it.

 

 

[Head in the clouds]

..... and after only 12 months an inept and gutless Minister reverted to the old system. We will eventually pay the price for this in money and lives.

It's about time someone laid the blame where it's due, rather than at Dick's door ... IMHO John Anderson had to be the most hopeless of all Ministers for Aviation in the last 40 or so years.

 

There's quite an interesting read/listen from the ABC Sunday profile of 2005 when Dick was interviewed by Monica Attard soon after the Airspace Reform debacle. It also has some background about Dick that I wasn't aware of, and which probably explains some of his 'differentness' that some folks find challenging.

 

I was wrong about him having given away a million dollars by the way, in 2005 the figure that he and Pip had given away was 15 million, and also all of the profits from DS Foods, amounting to another 3 million or so.

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

I was the one who wrote that and if you look at a map of radar coverage in the United States you will see that the vast majority of the entire continental USA is covered by radar above 4000' (even more so if you look at it above 10,000') and it has been that way for as long as I can remember, which is back to 1989 when I first participated in exercise Red Flag at Nellis AFB, Las Vegas Nevada. It was still that way for all the trips I did to Travis AFB, for the 3 months I spent flying around Atlanta out of the Lockheed-Martin factory at Marietta Georgia, and on numerous other occasions.

The exceptions are some of the very remote areas of Nevada, Utah, and smaller portions of Oregon and a couple of other States. It makes a fundamental difference to ATC being able to "see" what aircraft are doing as opposed to the situation in Australia.]

 

Yes and the Class E is above either 700 feet or 1200 AGL IIRC. How much of that radar is PRIMARY? Most is SSR nowadays and the transponderless bugsmashers won't show.

 

[Yes Travis AFB is depicted as an "alert" area but it has a Class D tower from which you most certainly do need a clearance to transit through. While there is no "technical" requirement to talk on the radio or carry a transponder outside that in the Class E surrounding airspace you would be an absolute nut to try this on (regrettably there are plenty of those about). Try operating through A-682 (the Travis alert area) as if you were just crossing a danger area and let me know how you go! Travis Approach and Travis Tower operate 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. If you don't believe any of this, or want their opinion of VFR bugsmashers charging through A-682 without talking or squawking, contact the 60th Air Mobility Wing Flight Safety Office. I know exactly how that conversation will end.....]

 

I see Travis as an MOA on the sectional I linked to. It is a little different from the one I checked 12 months or so ago. I was flying in a glider once out of Vacaville. At one point I asked the owner in the back seat if we were meant to be where we were and he said "no problem" Reason I asked was that I was looking down over the canopy rail to the right and seeing C141s etc parked on the ramp at Travis. We weren't all that high maybe 3000feet above ground. I did say that (referring to Fort Rucker) "The instrument approach to the NW is protected by Class E from the ground up but you can putter through there in your J-3 Cub without a transponder. Having said that, I'd fit one as many US glider pilots have done even though for them it isn't compulsory (no engine driven generator)." OF COURSE I'd squawk if I had a transponder and or talk to Travis if I was flying in the vicinity in a bugsmasher.

 

Might? You "might" decide not to fly through an MOA? I know quite a number of pilots in the USA who fly VFR and not one of them will fly through an active MOA if they can possibly avoid it.

Relax. That was understated humour. OF COURSE I'd fly around an active MOA if the activity was at an altitude where it would be a problem.

 

That's one of the differences between Australia and the US. They actually let pilots make decisions. As I said everything not compulsory is banned in Australia

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

Looks like the system put some of my replies to dutchroll in his quote. Apologies. It is all there.

 

 

[dutchroll]

Relax. That was understated humour. OF COURSE I'd fly around an active MOA if the activity was at an altitude where it would be a problem.That's one of the differences between Australia and the US. They actually let pilots make decisions. As I said everything not compulsory is banned in Australia

In the USA the regulatory regime is dominated by what they consider their "Constitutional rights", which in many cases amounts to a right to be a complete moron resulting in the death of yourself and others. Not many other countries, including Australia, see it that way.

You can still go through military areas in Australia. You just have to ask. I fly VFR through Richmond CTR (which is much larger than a Class D tower would have) every time I fly to maintenance and frequently when it is active. Not once have I ever been refused a clearance, but I would expect that if there was a formation of 6 C130s airdropping 200 parachutists over Londonderry DZ right near the VFR route, I would probably be refused a clearance. In the USA however, it's your divine right to fly straight through the middle of it. I have no issues with not allowing such personal piloting decisions to be made. The difference is that in Australia they won't let you be a dangerous fool, but in the USA they will.

 

Even so, if you have a genuine gripe about something ATC is not letting you do, there is a very simple and 100% guaranteed way of getting your way. It is called an "operational requirement" (but you better be prepared to justify it).

 

Onto our current day system: a colleague of mine was flying VFR to a large country airstrip. He called up before his descent and asked for traffic. In the USA this would never be an issue and they'd give you radar observed traffic. Here in Australia you've got buckley's because you're VFR and frequently outside radar coverage. The controller refused to give him traffic - he's VFR and not entitled to it anyway. He responded "Roger, flight plan details when ready to copy". The controller was a bit shocked and asked him to go ahead, and he promptly changed to IFR status, gave tracking and level details, an ETA, then requested traffic! Lo and behold there was conflicting outbound traffic with whom he had to coordinate separation from, and the other pilot complimented him on his tactic. From the airmanship side he now had separation coordinated many miles before the conflict would have occurred as well as a very good indication of where to look out for it, rather than just hoping for the best that he would catch the other aircraft visually (which had already given its departure call before he was on frequency) before anything became an issue.

 

I am not saying we should return to everything we did back in the old days. However there are a lot of things which were taken away under the misleading catchphrase of "affordable safety" which I think were nonsense decisions.