Aeroprakt A-32 compared with the A-22LS

[Guest SrPilot]

When are you expecting your Shark/Valor/Foxbat?A-22/Vision? You can see, from the gills in the engine compartment, why it is called a Shark in some places: [ATTACH=full]37136[/ATTACH]

Mine probably will be registered as an Aeroprakt A22LS Long-Time-Coming.

Actually, 80k, it's moving faster than a herniated snail. Well, okay, maybe a little faster. When I ordered the puppy, they said they would try to ship by August 15. We will see. If so, I guess the arrival, prep and certification might get done by mid- to late September. I'm giving it 30 days on just the Atlantic transit. With my luck it will be on the slow boat from Prague.

 

The gills in your photo are on an A22. I have not seen gills on the A22LSs I've seen in photos or the two or three I've seen at airports. Here's a photo of an A22LS. No gills.

 

 

 

The U.S. A22LS is a plane in search of a name. A few people know the "Valor," but I've had more people say "oh, a Foxbat." Without the gills, we can't use Shark. Valor hasn't caught on in the circles I travel. Vision isn't seen. Foxbat was a name already used by some ultralight of which I see two - yes, two - registered in the FAA registry and I do not believe either of them are still operational.

 

I wish they'd just go with Foxbat and let 'er rip.

 

So! Will we be flying by October 1? Stand by. We'll see, won't we? BTW, it was painted this past Wednesday. Yellow, like the Foxbat in the photo link above.

 

 

[eightyknots]

Mine probably will be registered as an Aeroprakt A22LS Long-Time-Coming. Actually, 80k, it's moving faster than a herniated snail. Well, okay, maybe a little faster. When I ordered the puppy, they said they would try to ship by August 15. We will see. If so, I guess the arrival, prep and certification might get done by mid- to late September. I'm giving it 30 days on just the Atlantic transit. With my luck it will be on the slow boat from Prague.

 

The gills in your photo are on an A22. I have not seen gills on the A22LSs I've seen in photos or the two or three I've seen at airports. Here's a photo of an A22LS. No gills.

 

 

 

The U.S. A22LS is a plane in search of a name. A few people know the "Valor," but I've had more people say "oh, a Foxbat." Without the gills, we can't use Shark. Valor hasn't caught on in the circles I travel. Vision isn't seen. Foxbat was a name already used by some ultralight of which I see two - yes, two - registered in the FAA registry and I do not believe either of them are still operational.

 

I wish they'd just go with Foxbat and let 'er rip.

 

So! Will we be flying by October 1? Stand by. We'll see, won't we? BTW, it was painted this past Wednesday. Yellow, like the Foxbat in the photo link above.

I like the yellow Foxbat: good choice! ...I also like the blue. I am not too keen on the lime green or the white. This is an interesting exterior treatment:

 

 

 

[planedriver]

Termite inspections needed? Looks like it could be a bit overweight!

 

I'd stick to the yellow version, easily seen in the circuit, and from the air if an outlanding incident occurred.

 

 

[Guest SrPilot]

I'd stick to the yellow version, easily seen in the circuit, and from the air if an outlanding incident occurred.

Well, yellow it was for me planedriver, but not due to such concerns. One must think positive while buying an airplane. I just like yellow birds.

 

I once saw a Mooney at Addison, TX. It painted in 5-6 very bright colors with no scheme to the paint. Just paint. I asked the pilot "what's with the paint job?" He said "I live in the Rockies," and asked "did you ever look for a white airplane in the snow." I hadn't and haven't. But in my days in the Civil Air Patrol a few decades ago, we did look for some white airplanes and I don't recall finding one even in green meadows or trees. I did see a Piper Cub resting in the top of a tall oak tree once. It was yellow; the tree was green. The pilot was relaxed, considering . . . .

 

 

[BoxFat]

Well at least one has a choice. Paraphrasing Henry Ford (although I believe he never really said it) "You can have a Jabiru in any colour as long as it is white" :)

 

Yellow definitely easiest to see but there were a few around here and I just had to be different so chose red.

 

 

[planedriver]

Well at least one has a choice. Paraphrasing Henry Ford (although I believe he never really said it) "You can have a Jabiru in any colour as long as it is white" :)Yellow definitely easiest to see but there were a few around here and I just had to be different so chose red.

So do you also wear a red tie? Some wear blue, but we all have a choice:surrender:

 

 

[BoxFat]

What's a tie ?

 

 

[Guest SrPilot]

Yellow definitely easiest to see but there were a few around here and I just had to be different so chose red.

Well, for me, close, but not fully on. Red was my second choice but I've noticed in our hot, sunny, humid weather the reds fade quicker. And darker colors are hotter than the lighter colors. White was a possibility based on the latter observation. Actually, though, because I own a hangar, none of those points were decisive, but I have a yellow motorcycle and I recently sold a (partially) yellow airplane. Ergo, balance played a part. Red is pretty though.

 

 

[Guest SrPilot]

Yellow definitely easiest to see but there were a few around here and I just had to be different so chose red.

Oh, I forgot. There are NO A22LSs around here so whichever color/colour I chose was going to be "different."

 

 

[fly_tornado]

cheap foxbat if you want to go down the ELSA path

 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Foxbat-A22-Ultralight-Aircraft-damaged-suitable-for-parts-only-/281763825638?hash=item419a6ec7e6

 

 

[Guest SrPilot]

cheap foxbat if you want to go down the ELSA path

Thanks ft. I possibly could go AU$2500 depending on what else is there - panel goodies, engine components, gear, etc - but like the seller says "May not post to United States."

 

Even if it could be imported as "parts," the shipping costs and duties together would exceed the asking price, and it may be too picked over. Now if the seller were in the SE U.S., I'd be a'looking for sure. Be prepared, ya know.

 

 

[ozbear]

I was in Tyabb on Tuesday and visited The Foxbat hangar while I was there and I was very impressed with both the hangar and the A32 I took some pics while I was there and will try and post them later Peter also furnished me with some as well

 

 

He gave me a link so I have added it as well

 

 

[Birdseye]

No sign of a fixed rudder trim tab in those photos, has rudder trim been installed?

 

 

[BoxFat]

Rudder trim: No. And not needed on this one I think - didn't feel the need for it in the brief flight I had.

 

 

[Birdseye]

Rudder trim: No. And not needed on this one I think - didn't feel the need for it in the brief flight I had.

Thanks for the confirmation.

 

 

[BoxFat]

Review of A32 and comparison with A22LS now published on-line in Sport Pilot mag at http://issuu.com/raaus/docs/sport_pilot_49_sep_2015.

 

Bottom lines:

 

1. Same carrying capacity, range and STOL performance as the A22LS

 

2. Roughly 20 kts faster cruise (real, genuine, fair dinkum, choose-your-own-adjective) number..no smoke and mirrors required. 110-115 kts IAS at 20 l/hr or 105 kts IAS at 16 l/hr. Same stall speed.

 

3. Some other ergonomic improvements, particularly as relevant to XC cruising. Yoke and centre throttle at present but Y-stick and side throttle option being looked at.

 

Cheers,

 

BF

 

 

[Ada Elle]

Looks like a nice plane... would love to have a fly!

 

 

[Maritime_Ev]

Sounds like Foxbat is on to a winner with this one then! Hope the Aussie dollar/Euro/UKR grivna exchange will not have to much of a bad influence in the sales price here in Oz.

 

2. Roughly 20 kts faster cruise (real, genuine, fair dinkum, choose-your-own-adjective) number..no smoke and mirrors required. 110-115 kts IAS at 20 l/hr or 105 kts IAS at 16 l/hr. Same stall speed

Not to be negative (I really like the little A22 and a quicker more comfy version would be something I'd consider buying) but I'm still a bit skeptical about the speed, it is clear that they did a lot to improve the aerodynamics viz. the A22 but a speed gain of 20 knots (or about 20%) seems to be a lot given that they still use the same aerofoil (?) and similar cabin cross section. Did you test the speed independently? (e.g. GPS on reciprocal headings) I remember a long discussion recently on this forum about how ASI will get very inaccurate near the extreme ends of the flight envelope.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Sounds like Foxbat is on to a winner with this one then! Hope the Aussie dollar/Euro/UKR grivna exchange will not have to much of a bad influence in the sales price here in Oz.

 

Not to be negative (I really like the little A22 and a quicker more comfy version would be something I'd consider buying) but I'm still a bit skeptical about the speed, it is clear that they did a lot to improve the aerodynamics viz. the A22 but a speed gain of 20 knots (or about 20%) seems to be a lot given that they still use the same aerofoil (?) and similar cabin cross section. Did you test the speed independently? (e.g. GPS on reciprocal headings) I remember a long discussion recently on this forum about how ASI will get very inaccurate near the extreme ends of the flight envelope.

Me too, sounds too good to be true. Call me sceptical, but having a aircraft trade, it sounds a bit fishy to me. But if it is true, awesome.

 

 

[Geoff13]

Just curious, so are you guys suggesting that the local distributor would fit an inaccurate gauge into a VH registered aircraft just to trick potential purchasers.

 

Being VH registered does the aircraft not only need to have the ASI calibrated but the complete system needs to be calibrated and tested.

 

 

[BoxFat]

We didn't do reciprocal GPS runs explicitly but I was watching the IAS, TAS and GS continually on the Dynon as we manoeuvered around and went Tyabb to French Is. and then on reciprocal track French Is. to Tyabb. There actually wasn't much wind that day - about 5 - 6 kts northerly and as we went W-E and then E-W there was no significant head wind or tail wind so TAS = GS. See the attached screenshot heading east: TAS and GS are both at 109 kts. This is at 4830 rpm and 16 l/hr. At 5100 rpm and 20 l/hr it was 114 - 115 kts.

 

I was sceptical going in too and certainly understand how others could be - it is astonishing what has been accomplished by what (at first sight) appear to be small changes. There is no mileage for the importer in exaggerating the performance though: that would be counterproductive as few people will buy a plane which doesn't perform as specified when put to a test in a demo flight. As far as I can see the A32 does exactly what the flight manual says it does. Actually, what surprised me more is that there has been no sacrifice in the STOL performance either - it's near identical to my A22LS. Perhaps the only significant difference is that being lower drag an excess of a couple of knots in the flare will mean a longer float.

 

 

 

[dazza 38]

Just curious, so are you guys suggesting that the local distributor would fit an inaccurate gauge into a VH registered aircraft just to trick potential purchasers.Being VH registered does the aircraft not only need to have the ASI calibrated but the complete system needs to be calibrated and tested.

Oh no, not at all Peter would never do such a thing. I am just trying the get my head around an 100 hp aircraft with that speed range. It sounds awesome and it will sell very well. Well I do think importers are going to struggle a bit until the aussie dollar goes back up.

 

 

[Geoff13]

I have spoken to someone who was also very skeptical so he went down and flew it.

 

Both were very impressed and quite happily confirmed the claims of top end speed and stall speed.

 

The changes listed from the A22LS add up to quite a long list and many of these things on their own might make very little difference but in combination, all the little things can add up.

 

It appears that yes there are some big changes in shape and aerodynamics but there are also a lot of little things that all help.

 

The one thing that does bother me is the very small gap between Max cruise and Vne. Not much room for error there especially if used in a training environment.

 

Oh no, not at all Peter would never do such a thing. I am just trying the get my head around an 100 hp aircraft with that speed range. It sounds awesome and it will sell very well. Well I do think importers are going to struggle a bit until the aussie dollar goes back up.

I agree and this really could be a game changer for Jabiru, I would love to see a head to head comparison between this and the J230. Cost wise there is not much in it and this is a far lighter aircraft with better stall and similar cruise. Oh and that Rotax up front.

 

 

[dazza 38]

( Hypothetically, since I do not own a school.) If I owned a flying school and I was looking for a new trainer. I would seriously consider the A32.

 

 

[Maritime_Ev]

Just curious, so are you guys suggesting that the local distributor would fit an inaccurate gauge into a VH registered aircraft just to trick potential purchasers.Being VH registered does the aircraft not only need to have the ASI calibrated but the complete system needs to be calibrated and tested.

No, I'm not suggesting foul play from the importer (or the factory), what I meant was that any pitot-static system has an inherent error (especially at large angles of attack) regardless of certification.

 

I guess that would be of more importance at very slow speeds though. I'm just curious how they managed to get such a large increase in speed (and an suspicious bastard when it comes to miraculous claims about flying, floating and rolling things), as you say in your later post probably a combination of a lot of small improvements. Anyway I'm a fan of the Foxbat so I would love to check out the improved version.

 

BTW I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter whether there's a VH or a 24 rego on it, it still is an LSA for certification purposes.

 

I agree and this really could be a game changer for Jabiru, I would love to see a head to head comparison between this and the J230. Cost wise there is not much in it and this is a far lighter aircraft with better stall and similar cruise. Oh and that Rotax up front.

Exchange rate variations can be big problem, no matter how good your product is; if it's suddenly 30% more expensive it's going to hurt sales (Australian industries know all about that I'm sure). It may be a lifesaver for Jabiru, especially exporting to the states (don't know how much of their current CASA induced PR disaster spilled over to the US though).