BoxFat Posted September 12, 2015 Posted September 12, 2015 I tend to agree about the proximity of the cruise (at 5100 rpm) and VNE speeds and, if I get to own an A32 one day, will prob use ~ 4900 rpm for standard cruise which would give ~ 110 kts and 17 litres an hour or so. The exchange rate drop does make any imported aircraft more expensive of course. But... I have a small company that earns part of its income in US$ so it's swings and roundabouts etc and I can dream on !
eightyknots Posted September 15, 2015 Posted September 15, 2015 I tend to agree about the proximity of the cruise (at 5100 rpm) and VNE speeds and, if I get to own an A32 one day, will prob use ~ 4900 rpm for standard cruise which would give ~ 110 kts and 17 litres an hour or so. The exchange rate drop does make any imported aircraft more expensive of course. But... I have a small company that earns part of its income in US$ so it's swings and roundabouts etc and I can dream on ! There is a saving in the fuel to fly the A32, which is cheaper while oil prices are down.
BoxFat Posted September 20, 2015 Posted September 20, 2015 Courtesy of Peter Harlow I had a second ride in the A32 Vixxen on Saturday. It confirmed my impression that, despite appearances, it is a quite different aeroplane to the A22LS Foxbat. It even sounds different, due to the different cowling I suppose. For anyone with the money it would be an easy choice as it does everything a Foxbat does but also everything (e.g.) a J230 does - actually a bit more due to the higher rough air speed and lower fuel consumption. I am interested to see what happens when the GA world becomes more aware of the A32. I suspect there could end up being more VH than RA registered aircraft - it runs rings around a C172 albeit with two seats. I understand there will be a review in Australian Flying mag soon.
eightyknots Posted September 20, 2015 Posted September 20, 2015 Courtesy of Peter Harlow I had a second ride in the A32 Vixxen on Saturday. It confirmed my impression that, despite appearances, it is a quite different aeroplane to the A22LS Foxbat. It even sounds different, due to the different cowling I suppose. For anyone with the money it would be an easy choice as it does everything a Foxbat does but also everything (e.g.) a J230 does - actually a bit more due to the higher rough air speed and lower fuel consumption.I am interested to see what happens when the GA world becomes more aware of the A32. I suspect there could end up being more VH than RA registered aircraft - it runs rings around a C172 albeit with two seats. I understand there will be a review in Australian Flying mag soon. Assuming the low stall speed of the A32 is as low as the A22, I still wonder how Aeroprakt was able to get "a free lunch" so to speak: how did they get such an exceptionally low stall speed and such a high cruise speed with the same airframe? If it is true Aeroprakt have achieved what many, many aircraft designers have spent almost a century trying to attain.
BoxFat Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 Yes it's true. Several others have flown it and can confirm. I've seen it stall at 27 kt indicated and landed with full flap off a 40 kt short final on Saturday. This shouldn't be a surprise as the wing is the same as the A22 and has the same full span flaperons. Also did reciprocal GPS runs and there is no problem cruising above 115 Kts. How did Yuriy Yakovlev do it ? Beats me. I made a comment in the Sport Pilot article (edited out) that he has a whiteboard somewhere covered in numbers and squiggles and I want my accountant to look at it carefully ! We are to consider that Yuriy was an aerodynamicist for a Russian commercial/state aircraft company so he knows his cookies. 1
eightyknots Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 Yes it's true. Several others have flown it and can confirm. I've seen it stall at 27 kt indicated and landed with full flap off a 40 kt short final on Saturday. This shouldn't be a surprise as the wing is the same as the A22 and has the same full span flaperons. Also did reciprocal GPS runs and there is no problem cruising above 115Kts. How did Yuriy Yakovlev do it ? Beats me. I made a comment in the Sport Pilot article (edited out) that he has a whiteboard somewhere covered in numbers and squiggles and I want my accountant to look at it carefully ! We are to consider that Yuriy was an aerodynamicist for a Russian commercial/state aircraft company so he knows his cookies. An aircraft with a cruise speed of 115 knots and a stall speed of 27 knots has broken the magical 3.5 : 1 ratio which is very difficult to crack. In fact, 27-115 knots has a ratio of 4.6: 1. If it is all true, as you have confirmed, it is nothing short of remarkable. Yuri must be one of those ace designers who is able to push the engineering boundaries beyond what has been held as the accepted position. Well done Yuri! 1 2
recflyer Posted November 8, 2015 Posted November 8, 2015 [MEDIA=audio]http://traffic.libsyn.com/goflying/Go_Flying_Australia_Podcast_024.mp3[/MEDIA] Here is an interview with the Australian Distributor that you might be interested in listening to if you are interested in the A-32 Vixxen. Here are the show notes. 1
Guest SrPilot Posted November 8, 2015 Posted November 8, 2015 [MEDIA=audio]http://traffic.libsyn.com/goflying/Go_Flying_Australia_Podcast_024.mp3[/MEDIA] Here is an interview with the Australian Distributor that you might be interested in listening to if you are interested in the A-32 Vixxen. Here are the show notes. Thanks. I appreciate all the information that's come my way on the A32. After researching the A32 project earlier this year and weighing my options, I decided that the first real shot at an A32 in the U.S. would be too far in the future for me so I ordered an A22LS. That took months but it has been delivered and after considerable paperwork delays it will be inspected on 10 November. I'll be flying within days. Had I tried to order an A32, I might have aged out of aviation before I got it. Even if I had managed to be the first to have one on our soil, there would have been a considerable period of time during which I would have been without an airplane to fly. I'm too "mature" for even a year's delay while I sit in my hangar waiting for the next plane. Besides, the A22LS will do what I want to do just fine. I'm no longer into "get-there-quicker". I've owned even faster airplanes which I enjoyed immensely and I've flown coast to coast in this country. That's history. Now I'm happy to have a weekend of just getting over to some airports in the area to see friends and meet new friends, for a cup of coffee and a chat, kicking of tires and listening to flying stories (while telling a few of my own).
recflyer Posted November 8, 2015 Posted November 8, 2015 Thanks. I appreciate all the information that's come my way on the A32. After researching the A32 project earlier this year and weighing my options, I decided that the first real shot at an A32 in the U.S. would be too far in the future for me so I ordered an A22LS. That took months but it has been delivered and after considerable paperwork delays it will be inspected on 10 November. I'll be flying within days. Had I tried to order an A32, I might have aged out of aviation before I got it. Even if I had managed to be the first to have one on our soil, there would have been a considerable period of time during which I would have been without an airplane to fly. I'm too "mature" for even a year's delay while I sit in my hangar waiting for the next plane. Besides, the A22LS will do what I want to do just fine. I'm no longer into "get-there-quicker". I've owned even faster airplanes which I enjoyed immensely and I've flown coast to coast in this country. That's history. Now I'm happy to have a weekend of just getting over to some airports in the area to see friends and meet new friends, for a cup of coffee and a chat, kicking of tires and listening to flying stories (while telling a few of my own). Excellent choice! The A22 is such a great aircraft, im sure you will love it. 1
BoxFat Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Thanks. I appreciate all the information that's come my way on the A32. After researching the A32 project earlier this year and weighing my options, I decided that the first real shot at an A32 in the U.S. would be too far in the future for me so I ordered an A22LS. That took months but it has been delivered and after considerable paperwork delays it will be inspected on 10 November. I'll be flying within days. Had I tried to order an A32, I might have aged out of aviation before I got it. Even if I had managed to be the first to have one on our soil, there would have been a considerable period of time during which I would have been without an airplane to fly. I'm too "mature" for even a year's delay while I sit in my hangar waiting for the next plane. Besides, the A22LS will do what I want to do just fine. I'm no longer into "get-there-quicker". I've owned even faster airplanes which I enjoyed immensely and I've flown coast to coast in this country. That's history. Now I'm happy to have a weekend of just getting over to some airports in the area to see friends and meet new friends, for a cup of coffee and a chat, kicking of tires and listening to flying stories (while telling a few of my own). Given the description of your useage profile, if you had both the A22LS and A32 to choose from I think you would have chosen the A22LS anyway. You don't need the extra speed and there is a significant cost differential after all. One thing that sometimes gets lost in spec comparisons is the "fun" factor. It's hard to quantify and highly subjective of course but it's mainly why we fly at all. Most A22LS Foxbat owners will tell you it's just great fun. The odd thing is it takes a bit of flying to realize it. It just gets better as you get more familiar and I'm sure you will enjoy yours too - congratulations and please do continue to share the experience :) 2
eightyknots Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Given the description of your useage profile, if you had both the A22LS and A32 to choose from I think you would have chosen the A22LS anyway. You don't need the extra speed and there is a significant cost differential after all.One thing that sometimes gets lost in spec comparisons is the "fun" factor. It's hard to quantify and highly subjective of course but it's mainly why we fly at all. Most A22LS Foxbat owners will tell you it's just great fun. The odd thing is it takes a bit of flying to realize it. It just gets better as you get more familiar and I'm sure you will enjoy yours too - congratulations and please do continue to share the experience :) That's an interesting comment BF. Every specifications list you look contains stall speed, VNE, maximum takeoff weight and many other facets of the aircraft. Not one has any attempt at quantifying the Fun Factor ...because it is so subjective. See Fun Factor Thread: http://recreationalflying.com/threads/fun-factor-thread-tell-us-about-your-aircraft-scale-1-10.141966/ 1
planedriver Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Thanks. I appreciate all the information that's come my way on the A32. Besides, the A22LS will do what I want to do just fine. I'm no longer into "get-there-quicker Don't forget to post a photo of yourself. I'm sure the smile will go from ear to ear. 1
recflyer Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Here is another good summary of the differences between the A22 and A32. Both great aircraft! 2 1
Guest SrPilot Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Don't forget to post a photo of yourself. I'm sure the smile will go from ear to ear. Sure planedriver. I am sure the smile will go from ear to ear - when I get to fly the puppy. I've flown two and smiled both times. Nothing like flying your own though, IMHO. Why haven't I flown it? Good question. I could not fly it until I had it inspected. I could not get it inspected until I had the registration number permanently affixed on the airplane. Of course, I could not paint the registration number on the aircraft until we had the proper paperwork in hand, and that only took 3 attempts. Sooooo, having now received the paperwork and having affixed the tail number, we had an inspection scheduled for tomorrow. But now our inspector has gone on vacation. Ergo no inspection tomorrow as previously scheduled. Last word today is that a different inspector has agreed to look at the airplane on Thursday. Then Ugh, did I remember to say "maybe"? Please . . . . let's have a group holding of our breaths pending the inspection - just for luck.
Guest SrPilot Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Given the description of your useage profile, if you had both the A22LS and A32 to choose from I think you would have chosen the A22LS anyway. . . . One thing that sometimes gets lost in spec comparisons is the "fun" factor. It's hard to quantify and highly subjective of course but it's mainly why we fly at all. Most A22LS Foxbat owners will tell you it's just great fun. The odd thing is it takes a bit of flying to realize it. It just gets better as you get more familiar and I'm sure you will enjoy yours too - congratulations and please do continue to share the experience :) Thanks Boxfat. I agree. I've owned a number of airplanes, some practical, others just a blast. My RV3A was a great airplane. Fast, agile, economical, but only one seat. Got me to a lot of flyins and airshows. I even did a few business runs in it. Great plane. The Cessna 182 was a great airplane too, but quite a different animal. Over the years, I've opted more for fun that just point-to-point transportation, although I've done that too. Give me a choice and I'll probably opt for the fun every time.
DrZoos Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Thats an interesting review...i dont agree with the cost to a flying student its $16,000 more which on face value is $3-4hr more However it is also more fuel efficient... not knowing the sums lets assume its 115/100 knots more efficient So its only around $3hr more in a flight school situation, yet you suddenly get an aircraft that is also a high speed tourer for trips away or navs / extended navs To me its a no brainer if you want new then the A32 wins every time unless you cant afford it or need to land off field or on rough farm strips. If you want used then clearly your only choice is the A22 1
Guest SrPilot Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 To me its a no brainer if you want new then the A32 wins every time unless you cant afford it or need to land off field or on rough farm strips.If you want used then clearly your only choice is the A22 DrZoos, for those of us who reside in the U.S., the A32 can be on one's wish list but the last word I heard put the expected A32 availability opportunity well beyond a reasonable wait time. It took me months and months to get a new A22LS (date of order to arrival on U.S. soil). Had I tried to order an A32, I'd still be on a wait list. Instead of an airplane, I might have an expected delivery date; then again, maybe not. The Australian experience is virtually unique insofar as I've been able to decipher. That's why I've studied the Australian-Aeroprakt history. You have a developed market; we have a startup, practically speaking. The numbers in the U.S. do not even approach the numbers in Australia. over here, there was little to study. Although I think Aeroprakt should consider the U.S. a prime target for expansion (and they probably do), there is no A32 demonstrator flying about the U.S. and so far as I know, there is no A32 on the way to the U.S. yet. Until I see delivery dates for A32s in the states, I cannot see the A32 "winning every time." I might as well order an F22 Raptor. Nothing wrong with the A32; it's just not a realistic option over here yet. Maybe sometime in 2016 but at my age I don't buy green bananas or wait-listed airplanes. My A22LS was the winner for me against a number of other aircraft I considered. Opinions may vary but that's just the way things are.
ozbear Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 I've just bought a new A22LS after stupidly selling my old A22l I love it all the little things I would have liked to have changed on the old one have been done on the new one they are as follows. Tundra tyres std Electric trim that trims out properly at full flap Repositioned choke Repositioned park brake Redesigned nose wheel assey A good gust lock for the controls Y stick Carby heat and cold air intake 600kg mtow Soft start for the engine No bleed off to the right hand fuel tank so not swapping tanks as much A good radio and integrated intercom German made repositioned jacks for headphones The geometry of the ailerons is different not as touchy 112 lts fuel cap against 80lts for the old one Fun factor still 10 out of 10 4
recflyer Posted November 10, 2015 Posted November 10, 2015 I've just bought a new A22LS after stupidly selling my old A22l I love it all the little things I would have liked to have changed on the old one have been done on the new one they are as follows.Tundra tyres std Electric trim that trims out properly at full flap Repositioned choke Repositioned park brake Redesigned nose wheel assey A good gust lock for the controls Y stick Carby heat and cold air intake 600kg mtow Soft start for the engine No bleed off to the right hand fuel tank so not swapping tanks as much A good radio and integrated intercom German made repositioned jacks for headphones The geometry of the ailerons is different not as touchy 112 lts fuel cap against 80lts for the old one Fun factor still 10 out of 10 Thats awesome that you are happy with it! Its great to see a company that continues to develop their products. 2
Bennyboy320 Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 Both great a/c, for me the Foxbat is my ride of choice, been in contact with Peter & will be getting my orange wonder in August to coincide with 4 weeks of leave, hope that the next 9 months goes quickly. 2
Guest SrPilot Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 Both great a/c, for me the Foxbat is my ride of choice, been in contact with Peter & will be getting my orange wonder in August to coincide with 4 weeks of leave, hope that the next 9 months goes quickly. Congrats, Bennyboy320. My yellow A22LS arrived stateside in September. We've been navigating the registration-paperwork maze and inspection process ever since. You may fly before I do. Alas. They just rescheduled tomorrow's inspection for next Tuesday. That's 3 different inspection days in about 10 calendar days. As I said, you might fly before I do. August, you say? Cheers!
Bennyboy320 Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 SrPilot, thats a shame reference all that red tape, I thought the US would of been fairly straight forward being such an aviation friendly country, we are very fortunate in Australia with our importer as everything (paperwork & registration etc) is done by him & you basically arrive & pick up the keys & you're on your way. 1
eightyknots Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 Congrats, Bennyboy320. My yellow A22LS arrived stateside in September. We've been navigating the registration-paperwork maze and inspection process ever since. You may fly before I do. Alas. They just rescheduled tomorrow's inspection for next Tuesday. That's 3 different inspection days in about 10 calendar days. As I said, you might fly before I do. August, you say? Cheers! It must be hard waiting for that inspection day to arrive!! 1
BoxFat Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 Both great a/c, for me the Foxbat is my ride of choice, been in contact with Peter & will be getting my orange wonder in August to coincide with 4 weeks of leave, hope that the next 9 months goes quickly. Awesome BB320, very exciting ! Although the waiting is hard Peter keeps you informed of progress, right down to providing the shipping docket so you can track it. I used a ship tracking ap on my phone to follow it from Odessa to Singapore, change ships, then down the west Oz coast, arriving at Fremantle on Christmas Eve. As you can see, I wasn't eager at all ! 1 1
Bennyboy320 Posted November 12, 2015 Posted November 12, 2015 As you can see, I wasn't eager at all ! I'm the same as you, I'm such an aviation nerd I wish they had a camera set up in the workshop so I could see how the build goes. 1
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