Competition flying

[aj_richo]

I could be pedantic and suggest you are describing tasks.. which may or may not require high stress manoeuvres to carry out.

 

 

[facthunter]

I'm only explaining what I said was done a long while ago and it was good experience at stalling at high "G" and fullpower. and what sort of plane I thought you needed. I even included NEW for the DH 82. I certainly wouldn't recommend an original one would be OK today. There's a lot of aerobatic planes I would not choose today. I wouldn't do it in my Citabria (sold now) even though it was completely rebuilt before I had it. A Pitts S2 ?? Nev

 

 

[ricky m]

I was more thinking about flying skill comps.. Navigation,spot landings short take offs.. Yes they pilon race ultralights but sure the no where near g limits.. Prob only +2-3 no more than turbulant weather... Pls dont turn it into are the aircraft suitible but keep it as how can we get this to happen if we can??

 

 

[ricky m]

That is +2 to +3 lol

 

 

[kasper]

I was more thinking about flying skill comps.. Navigation,spot landings short take offs.. Yes they pilon race ultralights but sure the no where near g limits.. Prob only +2-3 no more than turbulant weather... Pls dont turn it into are the aircraft suitible but keep it as how can we get this to happen if we can??

Read through and look at the service bulletin on pylon racing in a microlight and then say its only 2-3 G ... a bit of competition and low level gets to the blood - real live example

http://www.pmaviation.co.uk/admin/upload_pdf/SB128 QuikRKeelWebbing_QuikR.PDF

 

 

[Yenn]

I have recently attended a fly here there was flour bombing and balloon popping taking place. I don't know how well you would go with a Sonex for flour bombing. I can't do it with my Corby. I have flown a thruster flour bombing and toilet roll cutting. Managed to destroy the toilet roll but the flour bombing attempt was very poor. One problem with toilet roll cutting is the possibility of blocking off cooling fins.

 

As the heights are going to be low for balloon popping I would consider having a safety pilot along for the ride in a two seater. I wasn't game to try it in my RV4 as I wasn't set up to carry a passenger at the time.

 

 

[facthunter]

The balloons were only full of air so they slowly fell .You don't have to be low. I don't advise it as you concentrate on the balloon. You have to cut it with the blade tips or at least well out from the centre. If you make contact near the centre, it doesn't pop the balloon most times. and you have to find it and do it all again, losing more height. Nev

 

 

[dazza 38]

Murphy Renegade which can also be registered as a ultralight has a ultimate limit load of +10, - 6 G.

 

 

[slb]

- HGFA is affiliated so for weightshift microlights and pilots flying through HGFA there is the international option.

I was going to say 'yippee ..' and then I remembered that we are issued Certificates, not Licences and these are not recognised overseas

 

 

[facthunter]

Seats, engine mounts etc all ok for 10 "G"? I'm reasonably familiar with the Renegade and It is ok for Aerobatics but there is usually a list of permitted areobatics allowed, and there will be some airspeed limits applied too. Entry speeds etc. There always is, but it must be registered GA. so could be different to the RAAus specs in some ways Nev

 

 

[Happyflyer]

Ahh. The old club flying competitions! I find it more fun to watch than to participate. Competitive instincts and ambition sometimes exceeding ability. Tough old Pipers and Cessnas being thrown onto the ground to try and win the spot landing comp. RAAus aircraft may not be as tough. Very important to make it clear that if a nose wheel is involved in the landing you are disqualified.

 

 

[ricky m]

Read through and look at the service bulletin on pylon racing in a microlight and then say its only 2-3 G ... a bit of competition and low level gets to the blood - real live examplehttp://www.pmaviation.co.uk/admin/upload_pdf/SB128 QuikRKeelWebbing_QuikR.PDF

Fair point but it was flown outside its envelope and did not fail just showed a weak part of a desiegn that had a built in excess for people who do fly outside the envelope intentionally or not.. Read bcar section s if u got a spare couple if days lol

 

 

[kasper]

Fair point but it was flown outside its envelope and did not fail just showed a weak part of a desiegn that had a built in excess for people who do fly outside the envelope intentionally or not.. Read bcar section s if u got a spare couple if days lol

Yep, Read CAP 482 and even JAR VLA and had to apply them to design briefs for aircraft in the UK.

The issue with pylon racing is that people will not stay at nice simple 60deg 2-3G turns - competitive nature takes over and then if it goes pear shaped it happens very quickly at low level with wafer thin margin on time to react and recover.

 

And if you have any real appreciation of the operation of a flexwing the failure (and it was a definite failure not a weakness) was very fortunate in not having a very bad outcome - the tension in the trailing edge of a flexwing is critical and the failure as it happened altered the trailing edge while going very fast with a high load.

 

 

[ricky m]

Yep, Read CAP 482 and even JAR VLA and had to apply them to design briefs for aircraft in the UK. The issue with pylon racing is that people will not stay at nice simple 60deg 2-3G turns - competitive nature takes over and then if it goes pear shaped it happens very quickly at low level with wafer thin margin on time to react and recover.

 

And if you have any real appreciation of the operation of a flexwing the failure (and it was a definite failure not a weakness) was very fortunate in not having a very bad outcome - the tension in the trailing edge of a flexwing is critical and the failure as it happened altered the trailing edge while going very fast with a high load.

..

Ok so we wont recomend pylon racing then (as peopple have no control under persived pressure loo) will read again as only skimed over and thought it was keel pocket:(

 

 

[kasper]

I was going to say 'yippee ..' and then I remembered that we are issued Certificates, not Licences and these are not recognised overseas

Not all is lost - if you want to do an FAI world record attempt (or an Australian record recognized by the FAI) you need to hold an FAI licence - and that is issued on the back of your Australian HGFA certificate. In addition if you want to enter an FAI world airgames comp the general requirement to host is that the national aviation authority grants permission to other countries pilots to operate - generally they do this by exemption etc.

So not too bad - if you are HGFA and want to go international comp flying or record setting. :-)

 

 

[kasper]

..Ok so we wont recomend pylon racing then (as peopple have no control under persived pressure loo) will read again as only skimed over and thought it was keel pocket:(

Yep it was the keel pocket - BUT on high performance weightshift wings the trailing edge is under phenominal stress - take a look at the mateirals that are now used in the trailing edges to retain the shape and resist stretch/deformation. When the keel pocket slips forward it releases tension in the trailing edge allowing:

1. the centre section to relax - upper surface to go up and under surface to go up - change in sectional pitch in that inner wing

 

2. the tips would also go up as the tension holding them down is released/lowered.

 

In the release of tension it was luck that the handling changes were not such that the wing had a sudden change in pitch force ... at low level in a high angle bank turn not worth thinking about.

 

 

[ricky m]

Yep, Read CAP 482 and even JAR VLA and had to apply them to design briefs for aircraft in the UK. The issue with pylon racing is that people will not stay at nice simple 60deg 2-3G turns - competitive nature takes over and then if it goes pear shaped it happens very quickly at low level with wafer thin margin on time to react and recover.

 

And if you have any real appreciation of the operation of a flexwing the failure (and it was a definite failure not a weakness) was very fortunate in not having a very bad outcome - the tension in the trailing edge of a flexwing is critical and the failure as it happened altered the trailing edge while going very fast with a high load.

...

Ok u got me on the hook...i do understand basics of flexwing design (120hours flying them) and upgraded my Q wing to larger leading edge bolts.. Removed the skeleton for inspection ... Rebuilt a crashed tanarg and striped and re assembled the wing whikst employed by fly light airsports in the uk.. But i do not by any strech,know about the nitty gritty of any wing designs and the loads applied to them.but i do trust the standerds ultralight/microlights are designed too.. So like many would happily fly in comps... The jabiru landing gear test is an eye opning video ..

 

 

[Roundsounds]

I reckon you can strike streamer cutting off the list, the act of dropping the streamer is against the law theses days. If done properly you can use any aircraft safely, just start at low speed and you'll be teetering on the stall all the way around and no chance of over stressing the aircraft. Also a safety pilot (instructor) would be carried to make sure you don't over do it and time the cuts.

 

Spot landing, forced landing and "blind circuit" would probably be the best to kick it off. The blind circuit involves blanking the ASI and altimeter (still visible to the safety pilot).

 

All sequences to build safe skills.

 

 

[kasper]

...Ok u got me on the hook...i do understand basics of flexwing design (120hours flying them) and upgraded my Q wing to larger leading edge bolts.. Removed the skeleton for inspection ... Rebuilt a crashed tanarg and striped and re assembled the wing whikst employed by fly light airsports in the uk.. But i do not by any strech,know about the nitty gritty of any wing designs and the loads applied to them.but i do trust the standerds ultralight/microlights are designed too.. So like many would happily fly in comps... The jabiru landing gear test is an eye opning video ..

LOL when then, ask Paul D what its like when the tension is lost out of the trailing edge of a Q wing - he had a leading edge web fail on a peg Q on a permit test flight and his description of the handling change made me thankful not to have been involved.

For me I look at the S shaped leading edge of the Raven when I pull the tension in the wing - and that wing takes a good 40-50 kg pull back to latch in - it is not a skin I am tempted to accept any damage.

 

 

[ricky m]

Kasper you have a lot of knowledge on fai.uk comps :) and aircraft,are you keen to get involved in setting up a recognised comp affiliated to a governing body..

 

 

[kasper]

Kasper you have a lot of knowledge on fai.uk comps :) and aircraft,are you keen to get involved in setting up a recognised comp affiliated to a governing body..

Yeah I have to admit I was BMAA board member and did organise and run the Round Britain Rally one year ;-)

Oh and the Raven in the profile pic was Rob Keens comp raven ...

 

 

[ricky m]

LOL when then, ask Paul D what its like when the tension is lost out of the trailing edge of a Q wing - he had a leading edge web fail on a peg Q on a permit test flight and his description of the handling change made me thankful not to have been involved.For me I look at the S shaped leading edge of the Raven when I pull the tension in the wing - and that wing takes a good 40-50 kg pull back to latch in - it is not a skin I am tempted to accept any damage.

I have heard a few of pauls story not that one though.. Not had a lot to do with the raven wing but i know it trimed fast when put on the foward hang piont not electric flash stuff lol good ole move the hang bracket lol might of been rear )rob grim wood had one when i was learning to fly...and had it hands of trim if memory servs about 70mph.. But the 503 ciuld not keep up...

 

 

[ricky m]

Yeah I have to admit I was BMAA board member and did organise and run the Round Britain Rally one year ;-)Oh and the Raven in the profile pic was Rob Keens comp raven ...

I worked for paul and ben in 2007 for 3months to fill in the gap beetween job and moving to perth:).. Never done round Britain few friends have and i met them after at iow (john moores bash)..back on topic now :):)

 

 

[kasper]

I have heard a few of pauls story not that one though.. Not had a lot to do with the raven wing but i know it trimed fast when put on the foward hang piont not electric flash stuff lol good ole move the hang bracket lol might of been rear )rob grim wood had one when i was learning to fly...and had it hands of trim if memory servs about 70mph.. But the 503 ciuld not keep up...

Yep, the raven wing needs power to use the upper end of its flight envelope - the 912 is really nice. Even though it is a 1986 designed wing the trim speed on a 912 flying at around 400kg is 70mph for 11LPH and the VNE is 100. If you open up the taps then you will see around 85mph on one hand pull on the bar. Electric trim was on one 912 raven (moving the hang block up and down the keel) but its a really light wing in pitch anyway.

Two ravens sitting out in the shed here as I type - just waiting to move down onto the farm to get them up and running again.

 

 

[ricky m]

Are u in armadale wa?