rhtrudder Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 After changing filter and oil would it be prudent to crank the engine over on the starter , ignition off, till the oil pressure starts to come up , unsure whether this could do harm or be beneficial in not starving any components of oil on start up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunder Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I do it .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 My MoslerMotor manual, says crank engine over for oil pressure before starting. ( no starter do it manually). spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhtrudder Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share Posted June 25, 2015 Would there be any difference in using the starter rather than cranking by hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 If it doesn't start the effect is the same. Fill the filter with oil if you change it and mostly the problem goes away. Cranking the engine (or pulling it through) won't fling much oil around but will make sure the galleries are primed with oil, which is good. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhtrudder Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 Thanks for that , is there a way to screw the filter on without spilling any oil, the machinery we operate all have vertical filters so not a problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunder Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 If your talking about the rotax filter, it has valves on the entry and exit so is difficult to fill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 I wouldn't think it is impossible. It's worth doing if you can. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Changed my Delica oil (4x4) today, and I cranked it over without starting for a couple of minutes to make certain I didn't harm the bearings starting it up without oil pressure. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planesmaker Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 I always build pressure before I start it. After oil Change and also b4 1st flight of the day. Rotax 914 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhtrudder Posted June 27, 2015 Author Share Posted June 27, 2015 To take one step further, to check oil level after flying could you crank engine over on starter for a few seconds with ignition off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storchy neil Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 run engine to all operating temps remove drain plug drain oil remove oil filter check for metal remove spark plugs replace drain plug fill oil to level hand crank and displace air in the system check oil level top up as required replace spark plugs then start engine run to operating temps check oil level am I surrounded by imbersiles neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Returning oil to tank is done turning engine SLOWLY. It's the blowby that provides the pressure difference to get the oil back to the tank. With an almost new engine this is more difficult and may take longer. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
storchy neil Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 may be I cant read check the bloody manual sorry facthunter you are wrong but you are still write neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunder Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 To take one step further, to check oil level after flying could you crank engine over on starter for a few seconds with ignition off Probably not, as you would be pumping it into the engine as fast as it drains. Turn over slowly by hand as per specs. Crankcase pressure pushing it out faster than it is being sucked up. Need to get it to "gurgle" anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Neil, I was responding to rhtrudder. I should have made that clear. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueadventures Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 run engine to all operating tempsremove drain plug drain oil remove oil filter check for metal remove spark plugs replace drain plug fill oil to level hand crank and displace air in the system check oil level top up as required replace spark plugs then start engine run to operating temps check oil level am I surrounded by imbersiles neil No imbersiles; however I think you missed (or you forgot to mention) to fit an oil filter (perhaps half full of oil) in the procedures some where. Otherwise she'll be spitting oil out. Cheers Mike :) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planesmaker Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Ac Returning oil to tank is done turning engine SLOWLY. It's the blowby that provides the pressure difference to get the oil back to the tank. With an almost new engine this is more difficult and may take longer. Nev Actually Nev the engine returns oil to the tank all the time while running so speed had nothing to do with it. I would be quite concerned if my rotax had that much blow by. But of course you can disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I do disagree. I've proven it with an engine with about 10 hours on it. It's fairly common knowledge a new engine takes longer and turning it slowly allows time for the leakage to happen . Once the engine is running there is more pressure on the pistons. There is always blowby. It doesn't take a lot...How do you think the system works then. There is no scavenge pump, or crankcase breather.. Nev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhtrudder Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 No imbersiles; however I think you missed (or you forgot to mention) to fit an oil filter (perhaps half full of oil) in the procedures some where. Otherwise she'll be spitting oil out.Cheers Mike :) I would have thought if you took the plugs out there would be no compression blowby hence no oil return to the tank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhtrudder Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 Probably not, as you would be pumping it into the engine as fast as it drains.Turn over slowly by hand as per specs. Crankcase pressure pushing it out faster than it is being sucked up. Need to get it to "gurgle" anyway. I have tried giving the starter a 4 or 5 sec spin, ignition off, engine hot, then checked level , then cranked it over by hand but no change on stick , my engine is a 914 with 1300hrs up so it may be a bit worn allowing more blowby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 That would be true. There may be some confusion about priming the system after filter change, and Burping the oil back into the tank prior to checking oil level. Winding the engine with plugs out is fine for priming the oil galleries, although I would think it might take a while if the filter is not primed first. If the engine is still hot there won't be much oil there to return. It's probably a good time to check your oil level..Nev 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunder Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 You need to turn it over by hand so it gurgles. Turning it over with the starter it may or may not empty the crankcase of oil. As I've said in another post, there are many different engine component set ups. Oil tank location and heights. Same with coolers and hoses. Angle of engine (tail or tricycle config) Rotax instructions need to take account of all this and be largely fool proof, so they say "turn by hand until it gurgles/ check oil". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhtrudder Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 thanks for all the reply's, lots to consider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacesailor Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Rhtrudder: running a few seconds with ignition off is permissible, But Never with just the ignition leads off, it could damage the ignition system!. And only seconds, you don't want too much fuel pumped through the system. spacesailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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