storchy neil Posted June 28, 2015 Posted June 28, 2015 facthunter hard to get some to read rotax manual sorry old mate didn't mean to drop on you as your info is good but to those who cant read rotax states that a rotax motors should only be cranked by hand after oil change once again read the bloody manual and point out to me where it states it is ok to crank motor with starter in the rotax manual spacesailor your info is totally misleading neil
Guest Maj Millard Posted June 28, 2015 Posted June 28, 2015 Reading this makes me gringe....those ignition boxes are now $1200 each.........read the service manual for Chris sake.
storchy neil Posted June 28, 2015 Posted June 28, 2015 hi maj wondering how long before the statements here made you bite my blood pressure went up on the first page neil
Guest Maj Millard Posted June 28, 2015 Posted June 28, 2015 hi maj wondering how long before the statements here made you bite my blood pressure went up on the first page neil Unfortunately I'm the one who gets to fix them, after the event. And such a Simple engine too...but not foolproof it would seem.
rhtrudder Posted June 28, 2015 Author Posted June 28, 2015 I never said to pull the plug leads off with the ignition still on , sorry if that was not clear.
ms_aerovelo Posted June 28, 2015 Posted June 28, 2015 Unfortunately I'm the one who gets to fix them, after the event. And such a Simple engine too...but not foolproof it would seem. As an engineer as well I am with you....seen plenty of "pilot approved maintenance" that always makes me cringe....reading some of this has made me understand why!! 1
storchy neil Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 that manual that has been written at great expense according to some imbersiles is not worth reading as it does not comply with what they assume is correct assuming that what I am told by another imbersile is correct makes some people rich eh maj :yikes:oh sorry maj I hit on a sore point apparently installation manuals repair manuals don't have to read just do it the cheapest way by the imbersile down the road as some of you have discovered there are some that should not be allowed to hold a screwdriver or spanner as I did fact 1 at the last Narromine meeting that mr bert flood attended bert and I had a very good discussion about fuel return lines and when I pointed out in the manual were it said that all 912 rotax motors must have a return line to tank he was taken back on his return to melb he contacted me and said neil you are correct since 1997 as far as I can find out that has been in the rotax manual thank you now there is a but in here why has this not been picked up on raa don't want to know about it as it will make them out to not doing they assume they have the power not to comply cassa don't agree as they assume they have the power to change the manual to suit there own agenda fact 2 when I pointed out to a l2 that the fuel pressure was 6 to 7 bars:yikes: and the motor was running rough and I could smell fuel just replace needle and seat fact 3 when the same problem happened again just replace needle and seat had this imbersile had the manuals to this aircraft and been able to read same he would have found that there was no return line to tank as required by rotax fact 4 I am going out on a limb here in this statement talking about manuals how many off you at the learning stage of your flying read the flight manual off the aircraft you were learning in at the last natfly I asked this question my instructor knows all about it was the most likely reply fact 5 there are planes out there that do not comply just like l1 l2 just like lame just like pilots fact 6 yes to those l1 l2 lame and instructors who do care and go to a lot trouble and expense off trying to educaite them their imbersiles thank you neil 1
Downunder Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 I never said to pull the plug leads off with the ignition still on , sorry if that was not clear. Some aircraft don't have mag switches, just a key. So there may have been some confusion as to how you were planning to turn it over without ignition. Yours (I imagine) and mine both have 2 mag switches so it is pretty simple to turn the engine over without ignition happening for whatever reason.....
rhtrudder Posted June 29, 2015 Author Posted June 29, 2015 Point taken , I thought most had separate switches. I rang Floods to ask how they primed the filter and as you said they can't be filled so they crank it over on the started , ignition off or grounded , till they see some oil pressure , didn't think hand cranking would ever fill the filter. I didn't ask if they, as engineers, had ever read the Rotax manual , 1
Downunder Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 Search "rotax 912 oil filter" on this forum. I've got one broken down and labeled.
storchy neil Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 I didn't ask if they, as engineers, had ever read the Rotax manual my bloody point exactly rhtrudder why these so called experts exist and breath now another fact for you to ponder I was told by powers at the top that all aircraft registered by raa conform to manufactures motors installation manual some are not some trikes do not conform to the rotax motor installation manual and I feel that it is the cause off some off the incidents but then again I don't know jack sxxx I have asked several experts for the letter from rotax giving raa and cassa and l2 the right to change the installation manual of a rotax motor it has not been forth coming neil
facthunter Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 You would have to be able to fill them with pressure . The valves would lift easy. Quite a few filters have one way valves so they don't empty when idle, and result in a "dry" start. Nev
storchy neil Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 nev you are exactly right here comes the old but what if that one way valve has jammed open by hand rotation of 15 to 20 turns you have worked the oil pump thus filling or partly filling filter it has happened neil
Guest Maj Millard Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 I never said to pull the plug leads off with the ignition still on , sorry if that was not clear. No but you'd be surprised how many so called 'experts' whip the plugs out so it's easier to crank over, and then do so with the ign switches on. This is especially easy to do when the ign positions are on a turn-key situation. If the plugs are out of the leads, or off the plugs.....the ignitions MUST be OFF at all times when cranking. If you have to crank with a turn-key situation (Ignitions ON) you must ground out the plugs by either running a piece of lock wire or electrical wire with alligator clips to the heads or engine block. You only need to remove the top plugs anyway to allow cranking at full speed. The ign moduals put out about 40,000 volts and it's got to go somewhere. If it can't ground through the plugs it goes straight back to the boxes and zaps them. ( $1200 each new now) If you follow my previous instructions on performing oil/ filter changes you won't need to spin for oil pressure every time anyway......it always comes up quickly. If in doubt always follow the Rotax service manual.
facthunter Posted June 29, 2015 Posted June 29, 2015 Any thing I have said is directed at understanding why it happens rather than suggesting any variation from what Rotax say. You should never open circuit a high tension system as it will find a way to earth, and that's often to destroy the ignition module. This is the situation if a plug lead comes off, and it doesn't have to be more than one, to do the damage.. Nev 1
spacesailor Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 Thanks Maj.M You explain things much better than I, I thought my warning about: mags on with the plugs out, then using the ignition switch to turn the motor over: would have been better received than it did. Ho well I tried. spacesailor
Guest Maj Millard Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 Thanks Maj.MYou explain things much better than I, I thought my warning about: mags on with the plugs out, then using the ignition switch to turn the motor over: would have been better received than it did. Ho well I tried. spacesailor It was your contribution that kicked it all off Spacesailor.......
spacesailor Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 Hope it saves someone's electrical system, Hate the smell of burnt insulation rubber!. spacesailor
Guest Maj Millard Posted June 30, 2015 Posted June 30, 2015 Hope it saves someone's electrical system, Hate the smell of burnt insulation rubber!.spacesailor Me too...damn inconvienient when the engine wants to stop when checking one mag.
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